Hardy puts foot in mouth....

[Brian Manzella]

"...Whether this is the exact top of his backswing or not is arguable since Hogan started his hips moving to the left before he completed his backswing. The point is that you will not find one photo of Hogan where his left arm ever swung higher than his shoulder plane."

What????

Next.[|)]

 

[flopshot59]

Brian,

Is this from his book?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Excerpts of email responses to his article on GD.com

 

[birdie_man]

So you can find pics of that??

I'm guessing you have some?

 

[vjcapron]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

So you can find pics of that??

I'm guessing you have some?

Hardy is obviously referring to Hogan's championship years in the later part of his career (i.e. 5 Lessons), not his early, lean years (i.e. Power Golf). So don't try posting a photo of a young Hogan with his hands high above his head and claim that Hardy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Did you read his book yet? You promised a review of his book...

 

[palmreader]

Hardy and Peter Jacobsen were on Acadamy Live for one hour tonight discussing one plane Vs two plane swings. Any one catch that... It is one plane if you go around the body basically arms follows the body turn. It is two=plane if body turns around and arms go up on a different plane. I am confused about the whole golf swing now. He said Ben Hogan was a one plane and colin Montgomery two plane. Two plane will induce a lot problem like shoulder problems, back problems etc.

 

[cdog]

I left jiu jitsu training early just to watch this show and it was a BIG letdown.
Dont over analyze and over confuse everything. Basically what hardy said was the with a more bent over posture we swing more around, vs a more erect posture we swing more verticle.

Concentrate on the 3 imperatives and esentials and therest WILL take care of themselves.

 

[azgolfer]

What's up with the picture ? The one plane swinger is well into the downswing, the two plane is at the top.

 

[300Drive]

I actually liked what he had to say, maybe nothing "new", but, the focus on "plane type" does present a clear picture of how players typically swing and why the work well when executed properly. Also, some good ideas on different set-up, grip, etc that I think would be helpful for most golfers (not all), but the vast majority of people could learn from what he had to say.

I have been working, with great success, on a "one plane" swing (which as we all know, really is NOT a ONE plane swing). It requires less of a "drop into the slot", which is difficult for most players to properly achieve.

I know there must be some TGM definition of what Hardy is talking about, he just uses less precise terms (but, presumably, more understandable to the masses).

 

[jeffy]

The Golf Academy Live segment is a reasonable intro to Jim's concepts but his presentation at the 2004 Teaching Summit is much better. It is THE most fascinating presentation on golf I've ever seen or read. His book is good but should be read in conjunction with the DVD which covers some areas more completely (I don't think John Andrasani is much of a writer). Your pro ought to be able to order the DVD, if he doesn't have it already; BTW, if he doesn't have it already, or hasn't studied it, I wouldn't take a lesson from him!

I read through TGM again recently and certainly many of the elements of Jim's theory are covered but his core message that certain set up, posture, spine tilt, weight distribution, weight shift and other fundamentals are only compatable with with one or the other swing type is definitely not in there. Rather than pooh-pooh Hardy's work as something "Homer figured out a long time ago" (but apparently never published anywhere, since it is not in his book), some TGM guru should hop on this and produce the TGM interpretation and application of Hardy's "one-plane/two-plane" theories.

 

[galanga]

I realize now that I started as DP then slowly migrated to SP after reading Hogan. I think I mixed some elements and the results with SP were hooks and pushes for 2 years and a pretty good rib injury. Now I am back to DP and playing better with less pain (contrary to Jim's comments).

His presentation of the SP and DP concepts and the unique elements of each seem to clear the air a bit for me. Mixing fewer characteristics and doing better.

 

[dene]

quote:Originally posted by 300Drive

I actually liked what he had to say, maybe nothing "new", but, the focus on "plane type" does present a clear picture of how players typically swing and why the work well when executed properly. Also, some good ideas on different set-up, grip, etc that I think would be helpful for most golfers (not all), but the vast majority of people could learn from what he had to say.

I agree....it was a nice presentation. Very simple and straightforward. Having Jake on the scene as a living testimony was effective too.

I have been working, with great success, on a "one plane" swing (which as we all know, really is NOT a ONE plane swing). It requires less of a "drop into the slot", which is difficult for most players to properly achieve.

Same here. Ball striking is best ever for me. I worked on the drop/slot for years and never could master or trust it. I'm a pretty good athlete and yet I found it to be the most difficult athletic move I've ever tried. In contrast, 1P works beautifully for me, especially since it mimics a baseball swing, which is a natural swing for me, having loved/played it for 30 years.
I know there must be some TGM definition of what Hardy is talking about, he just uses less precise terms (but, presumably, more understandable to the masses).

Ferris wheel vs. plane of glass aren't TGM concepts???

 

[Brian Manzella]

Jeffy, jeffy, jeffy.....

 

[300Drive]

quote:Originally posted by jeffy

The Golf Academy Live segment is a reasonable intro to Jim's concepts but his presentation at the 2004 Teaching Summit is much better. It is THE most fascinating presentation on golf I've ever seen or read. His book is good but should be read in conjunction with the DVD which covers some areas more completely (I don't think John Andrasani is much of a writer). Your pro ought to be able to order the DVD, if he doesn't have it already; BTW, if he doesn't have it already, or hasn't studied it, I wouldn't take a lesson from him!

I read through TGM again recently and certainly many of the elements of Jim's theory are covered but his core message that certain set up, posture, spine tilt, weight distribution, weight shift and other fundamentals are only compatable with with one or the other swing type is definitely not in there. Rather than pooh-pooh Hardy's work as something "Homer figured out a long time ago" (but apparently never published anywhere, since it is not in his book), some TGM guru should hop on this and produce the TGM interpretation and application of Hardy's "one-plane/two-plane" theories.

Dont agree with the "hop on this...." at all, BUT, some TGM guy (B. Manzella) should produce a high quality DVD that does translate into "laymans terms" (with only a little TGM jargon).

Chuck Cook, to my knowledge, it the only TGM guy who has produced a good book on the golf swing. Hebron's stuff, although has a lot of info. is not well organized/presented.

 

[armourall]

quote:Originally posted by jeffy

The Golf Academy Live segment is a reasonable intro to Jim's concepts but his presentation at the 2004 Teaching Summit is much better. It is THE most fascinating presentation on golf I've ever seen or read. His book is good but should be read in conjunction with the DVD which covers some areas more completely (I don't think John Andrasani is much of a writer). Your pro ought to be able to order the DVD, if he doesn't have it already; BTW, if he doesn't have it already, or hasn't studied it, I wouldn't take a lesson from him!

I read through TGM again recently and certainly many of the elements of Jim's theory are covered but his core message that certain set up, posture, spine tilt, weight distribution, weight shift and other fundamentals are only compatable with with one or the other swing type is definitely not in there. Rather than pooh-pooh Hardy's work as something "Homer figured out a long time ago" (but apparently never published anywhere, since it is not in his book), some TGM guru should hop on this and produce the TGM interpretation and application of Hardy's "one-plane/two-plane" theories.

Anyone think this applies to Hardy's "one-plane" swing?

7-7
"Other controlled procedures that achieve On Plane Impact may be more difficult, but need not be deemed improper. Such as positioning the Clubshaft at the Top to the Plane Angle intended for Release."

 

[self-mastery]

I've been playing with this idea for the last 6 weeks. I have found great improvement with driving the ball. IME-The "one plane" swing seems to be more dynamic and incorporates more muscle than a 1p.

 

[birdie_man]

quote:Originally posted by self-mastery

I've been playing with this idea for the last 6 weeks. I have found great improvement with driving the ball. IME-The "one plane" swing seems to be more dynamic and incorporates more muscle than a 1p.

U mean 2p?

 

[DOCW3]

quote:Originally posted by palmreader

Hardy and Peter Jacobsen were on Acadamy Live for one hour tonight discussing one plane Vs two plane swings. Any one catch that... It is one plane if you go around the body basically arms follows the body turn. It is two=plane if body turns around and arms go up on a different plane. I am confused about the whole golf swing now. He said Ben Hogan was a one plane and colin Montgomery two plane. Two plane will induce a lot problem like shoulder problems, back problems etc.

Hardy describes the "Plane" of the swing on page 31 which is the "Hogan Plane" and then says he wants the shoulders to turn on a flatter plane. I feel Nick Price in his book The Swing provides more insight into DP. My question is "show me a SP?" He uses six factors to distinguish between SP and DP. Hogan as an example may satisfy most but like PJ has a bend toward the ball that is too steep. OTOH, show me a "zero shift" other than Mr. HK. The answer to all of this may be in 7-13.

DRW

 

[DeadAim SF]

quote:Originally posted by 300Drive

quote:Originally posted by jeffy

The Golf Academy Live segment is a reasonable intro to Jim's concepts but his presentation at the 2004 Teaching Summit is much better. It is THE most fascinating presentation on golf I've ever seen or read. His book is good but should be read in conjunction with the DVD which covers some areas more completely (I don't think John Andrasani is much of a writer). Your pro ought to be able to order the DVD, if he doesn't have it already; BTW, if he doesn't have it already, or hasn't studied it, I wouldn't take a lesson from him!

I read through TGM again recently and certainly many of the elements of Jim's theory are covered but his core message that certain set up, posture, spine tilt, weight distribution, weight shift and other fundamentals are only compatable with with one or the other swing type is definitely not in there. Rather than pooh-pooh Hardy's work as something "Homer figured out a long time ago" (but apparently never published anywhere, since it is not in his book), some TGM guru should hop on this and produce the TGM interpretation and application of Hardy's "one-plane/two-plane" theories.

Dont agree with the "hop on this...." at all, BUT, some TGM guy (B. Manzella) should produce a high quality DVD that does translate into "laymans terms" (with only a little TGM jargon).

Chuck Cook, to my knowledge, it the only TGM guy who has produced a good book on the golf swing. Hebron's stuff, although has a lot of info. is not well organized/presented.

Brian's video clips explain things just fine and with the visual aids, TGM terms make perfect sense and are actually far more accurate, IMHO than Hardy's. To me Hardy's DP swing is less to do about swing planes and more to do with high hands and vertical hinging...I don't think Hardy is wrong with noting the differences but I personally don't like the way he choses to define the two swings. I agree Chuck Cook's book is excellent.

 

[300Drive]

quote:Originally posted by DeadAim SF

quote:Originally posted by 300Drive

quote:Originally posted by jeffy

The Golf Academy Live segment is a reasonable intro to Jim's concepts but his presentation at the 2004 Teaching Summit is much better. It is THE most fascinating presentation on golf I've ever seen or read. His book is good but should be read in conjunction with the DVD which covers some areas more completely (I don't think John Andrasani is much of a writer). Your pro ought to be able to order the DVD, if he doesn't have it already; BTW, if he doesn't have it already, or hasn't studied it, I wouldn't take a lesson from him!

I read through TGM again recently and certainly many of the elements of Jim's theory are covered but his core message that certain set up, posture, spine tilt, weight distribution, weight shift and other fundamentals are only compatable with with one or the other swing type is definitely not in there. Rather than pooh-pooh Hardy's work as something "Homer figured out a long time ago" (but apparently never published anywhere, since it is not in his book), some TGM guru should hop on this and produce the TGM interpretation and application of Hardy's "one-plane/two-plane" theories.

Dont agree with the "hop on this...." at all, BUT, some TGM guy (B. Manzella) should produce a high quality DVD that does translate into "laymans terms" (with only a little TGM jargon).

Chuck Cook, to my knowledge, it the only TGM guy who has produced a good book on the golf swing. Hebron's stuff, although has a lot of info. is not well organized/presented.

Brian's video clips explain things just fine and with the visual aids, TGM terms make perfect sense and are actually far more accurate, IMHO than Hardy's. To me Hardy's DP swing is less to do about swing planes and more to do with high hands and vertical hinging...I don't think Hardy is wrong with noting the differences but I personally don't like the way he choses to define the two swings. I agree Chuck Cook's book is excellent.

Do you have Brian's $90 beta testing dvd from 2 years ago?