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Hinge action help
- Thread starter bcoak
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quote:Originally posted by brianman
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
quote:Originally posted by cdog
If what we want is an uncompensated stroke, then why worry about hinging as it will take care of itself?
If I cant make an uncompensated stroke, then how can i use hinging correctly to accomplish the ball flight i want??
It's a catch 22, if a person cant even swing on plane, have a bent /flat wrist combination, how can anyone expect them to alter ball flight with different wrist actions???
Bcoak, plane and left wrist are two of the three Imperatives. Go to 12-5-1 and work out the basic motion then 12-1-0 and/or 12-2-0. You need to be on plane and keep a flat left wrist before any thing else works correctly. If you re-read all the hinge posts by yoda and do 12-5-1 it will all fall in place. Nothing like holding a club with the left hand and working it out.
If anyone thinks that 12-5-1 and 12-1-0/12-2-0 are a SHORTCUT from hacker to player they haven't given many lessons. This route WOULD be a good one for a beginner, but a long route for a hacker.
Never implied it was a shortcut, Brian. I thought the poster was in the beging stages and thought it would help. It helped me. This past winter with all the discussion of Hinge motion on here and the other TGM forums, I have learned to control by clubface for the fisrt time. And when the lights went on, it is so easy now. I can create shots and practice them. The game is so different now.
Hackers need serious de-programming.
quote:Originally posted by ukhacker
When Hogan talks about supination in "Five Fundamentals", is he merely describing horizontal hinging?
Jodie Mudd has a wonderful left supinated wrist..check the vid
no...a supinated left wrist, depending on whether its a full shot, punch, pitch or chip can be any of the three hinges.
quote:Originally posted by cdog
6bee....could you explain yout practice routine for the 3 hinging motions?
Which hinge action to use depends on the club and the shot. With the driver I use horizontal hinging as I “swing” with a very easy tempo. For the first time I can hit a draw almost any time. We all make mistakes now and then. The Doyle tape I’m watching changed many poor swing habits and changed them easily- much to my surprise. Grip, line and balance before every shot. I use a neutral, Manzella grip for all shots. I can open or close my line to cut or hook the ball a little more with the same horizontal hinge. I do not use a vertical or angle hinge with my driver. The club is light and feels better “wrapping around” my hands. As Ben says about hands controlling the pivot, “Thank you Pivot for getting me (hands) through there.” Ben's three keys are: Eyes on the inside quadrant of the ball. Minds in my hands. Pivot does the work.
So with my driver I change the line for fade or draw with horizontal hinging. I’m sure there are other ways in achieving the same ball flight. Homers says, “Golf is a game for thinkers.”
For irons I will use the other hinges, like a vehicle hinge with a wedge because I am using a hitting stroke, my right arm pushing and not allowing the club to turn over. Longer irons I still like horizontal but can change the clubface at alignment to fade the ball. I’m still a novice at the combinations. Irons will produce more creative use of hinge actions because I don’t want that drive head doing anything but hit the ball squarely, its still too fickle.
I'm sure Brian with rip this apart or ignore it, but it works for me. I'm glad Yoda planted the idea of hinges being important and it did help learning it in a class room first and the tape from Ben Doyle, watching him teach just cleared any questions completly. Brian, you should do teaching tapes like Ben, too. Ben hovers around a student on the tee like a worker bee dances information to the hive. It blows me away.
I practice the shot not the morion but I think I know what you are asking. A vertical hinge action keeps the clubface facing the sky. Train in slow motion. A small chip shot or even a putt is a vertical hinge. Keep the club face skyward. Take a wedge and move the club head a foot forward and a foot backward keep the clubface square to the line. Extend the line, longer keeping the face square to the target line. Train this feeling, monitor the feeling in the hands AND the pivot as the line gets longer. Most vertical hinge action will be with a hitters stroke and or a short iron. Most vertical hinging will keep the clubhead below the hands. For years I used a vertical hinge action for every stroke because I didn’t know anything and sliced the ball all the time. I couldn’t draw a ball with a pencil.quote:Originally posted by cdog
Could you explain how you PRACTICE the motions?
Horizontal hinging is the closing of the toe of the clubface around the sweetspot of the clubface after impact. All hinge action is after impact, the nano second after impact. It will seem like the hands crisscross after impact but they don’t - the forearms will but only after the pivot “changes the ends of the club.” Grip end toward target is replaced by the clubhead toward target because of the pivot. Club travels in a straight linear line. The pivot moves, rotates the still straight club into impact. The ends switch positions to the finish. A horizontal hinge. Train in slow motion again. Long sweeping toe rolls of the club as a drill.
Angular hinging is close to a vertical hinge except on a fuller swing where the clubhead will be above the hands, a slight roll of the forearms and wrists. Not a full horizontal nor a total lack of motion. A hitters action.
Grab a club and move it with the a bent right wrist, a flat left wrist, slow short and feel the hands move. Watch the clubface. Swing the clubhead NEVER meant anything to me, a swung the handle. Now I feel the clubhead because I know where it is all the time. Alignment golf is knowing what the whole club is doing. Position golf is only knowing what the body is doing. We all need to play Homers way, Alignment golf.
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
quote:Originally posted by ukhacker
When Hogan talks about supination in "Five Fundamentals", is he merely describing horizontal hinging?
Jodie Mudd has a wonderful left supinated wrist..check the vid
no...a supinated left wrist, depending on whether its a full shot, punch, pitch or chip can be any of the three hinges.
su·pi·nate
v. su·pi·nat·ed, su·pi·nat·ing, su·pi·nates
v. tr.
- To turn or rotate (the hand or forearm) so that the palm faces up or forward.
I'm not disagreeing when you say that the left wrist should be flat for each hinge action. I'm just trying to understand exactly what Hogan was saying.
In Hogan's book he clearly shows the left wrist rotating so the palm ends facing up. It also strikes when when you pracice rotating the left wrist as he shows it is far easier to keep the left wrist flat. Maybe Hogan was saying by supinating in this way, it will garantee that the left wrist is flat at impact?
quote:Originally posted by brianman
quote:Originally posted by bcoak
OK, How do you/can you use these hinging actions?quote:Originally posted by brianman
ask me a question about actually USING hinge action...
What a question!
Well, try this:
INSIDE-OUT cut shot with VERTICAL HINGE ACTION (Hit the inside-aft quadrant and cut it as MUCH as you can.
INSIDE-OUT cut shot with ANGLED hinge action (Hit the inside-aft quadrant, and cut it SOME.
INSIDE-OUT STRAIGHT BALL with Horizontal hinge action (Hit the inside-aft quadrant, then FULL ROLL)
I think it is important to point out that 2 of the 3 hinge actions have cut/slice tendancies, and that only horizontal hinging produces a straight shot.
To produce horizontal hinging one must execute a full roll so that the hands turn in excess of the body pivot. So unless the hands perform this full roll there will always be slice tendencies.
Maybe this is why the most common shot is a slice?
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