Hips - when do they stop?

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I'm working with "New Ideas".

I'm wondering if there is any guidance on the hips - specifically the left hip.

1. When do the hips stop moving during the downswing? (post impact?)

2. Does the upper half of the body swing "past" them? If so at what point does this happen?

3. Do the hips supply ANY power or impetus to the golf swing?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 

dbl

New
Good questions. I think part of the answer will depend on the maladies the golfer faces. Poor pivot, or poor sequencing will need some steps (not sure which myself), while people with overactive hips will need quieting down early and through the ball.

I think Brian has said only 25% of energy used in the body movement translates to energy transfer to the club...which says moving 150-200 pounds of one's bulk consumes a lot of the power that is possible from the pivot, and also implies I think that proper pivot elements support the arm motion more than "drive" it.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Way to over simplified an answer but everybody's stop at different times. Stop and stall are two different things and I can see this thread going a number of directions!
 

art

New
I'm working with "New Ideas".

I'm wondering if there is any guidance on the hips - specifically the left hip.

1. When do the hips stop moving during the downswing? (post impact?)

2. Does the upper half of the body swing "past" them? If so at what point does this happen?

3. Do the hips supply ANY power or impetus to the golf swing?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dear BrendanC,

This will get complicated, so I will provide some insight, and ask that you expand on "New Ideas" so I can best provide a balanced supportive scientific response to your other very important questions. Is it a book, video, just your personal quest etc. Thanks.

The quality of the swing is 100% affected by the movement of the pelvis during the downswing AND follow thru for many and complicated reasons. In my world of research however, the most important aspect of the movement of the pelvis AND the left and right hips, is to maintain 'dynamic stability margin' during the swing, and secondarily to 'position' the pelvis correctly just prior to/during impact.

To accomplish both of these requirements, after reaching the top of the back swing, the left hip should rotate counterclockwise at a rate faster than the right hip, (and this 'screw axis of rotation' is different for each golfer). After reaching the peaks of the kinematic sequence, approximately 2/3 of the duration of the downswing, the right hips rotation predominantly controls the motion of the pelvis as the left foot is 'posted', and right foot comes up on the toe as impact occurs, and follow thru is accommodated by the combined AND now, much slower rotational speeds of both hips (and of course the pelvis).

When the hips stop moving is different for everybody, and is controlled by very significant interactions between the pelvis and the upper body regarding torques, moments of inertia, and of course the angular velocities and accelerations created during the early part of the downswing.


Question 2, yes the upper body angular rotation continues after the pelvis and hips stop rotating, late in the follow thru, and to positions that relate to the degree of shoulder and upper body ranges of motion.

Question 3 is the question I believe of critical importance as the professional golfing community seems to have adopted the general approach that maximum hip/pelvis velocity is VERY important to maximum club head velocity, which IMO is not correct. This year, I hope to turn this hypothesis into 'golf truth' and show, and hopefully prove that in all cases, slower is better when considering the realities that both club head velocity, PATH, AND POSITION are the true measures of the quality of all swings.

As for the power the hips/pelvis provide, in a previous response to a question by Brian last year, using data from Dr. Steve Nesbitt's work, I estimated that only about 10% of that horrendous effort got to the club head, which can much better be supplied by the other power/torque generators used during the swing.
 
Question 3 is the question I believe of critical importance as the professional golfing community seems to have adopted the general approach that maximum hip/pelvis velocity is VERY important to maximum club head velocity, which IMO is not correct. This year, I hope to turn this hypothesis into 'golf truth' and show, and hopefully prove that in all cases, slower is better when considering the realities that both club head velocity, PATH, AND POSITION are the true measures of the quality of all swings.

As for the power the hips/pelvis provide, in a previous response to a question by Brian last year, using data from Dr. Steve Nesbitt's work, I estimated that only about 10% of that horrendous effort got to the club head, which can much better be supplied by the other power/torque generators used during the swing.

I am looking forward to your results Art. I may be wrong, but I believe that the "Hips power the swing" dogma has ruined the lower backs of countless amateurs.
 
Thanks for the answers guys.

(Personally, I worked on calming down my hips and had good results with short clubs especially, but gradually got to hit low screaming hooks. I reckon I lost the good up and back left shoulder action that has been responsible for most of my improvement lately. Still, definitely a step forward taken thanks to a re-think on the hips).
 
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