Hit down with the driver = too much spin?

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Ringer

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For the same reasons the path of the clubhead relative to the clubface causes side spin, the same should be true of causing backspin right?

So why would you want to hit "down" on the ball with your driver when it will create more backspin? Is the problem with most drivers of the ball really that they don't get enough spin?
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
Hit DOWN ON THE BALL with a driver ??? Only when, as you said, I would want to create a lot of backspin...but why ?
I'd never want to. Au contre, I want to hit the ball on the upswing (I can, since the ball is on a tee peg) in order to create less spin and get more roll in consequence...

Cheers
 
R

Ringer

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Not exactly a rehash, I'm more interested in the spin caused by hitting down...not just whether or not some people do it on tour.
 
K

kmcg858585

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I think it comes down to the angle your hands are delivering the club and the actual angle the shaft kicks the clubhead into the ball. While your hands are leading the head doesn't really hit down even though you are trying to. The properties of a properly fitting shaft are such that you get some kick forward from the shaft leading to a level or slightly ascending blow even though the hands lead. Basically you want to make the same sort of swing with the driver as ever club in the bag and let the shaft technology take care of giving you that level-ish blow to the ball...Let me know if this is incorrect....
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Brian has changed his views on this recently. (also on putting.....and the changes in each have to do with the same science as far as I know BTW)

It has to do a lot with what a guy who called himself 'mandrin' came up with in here.

Basically....Brian changed his views on "effective mass." (i.e. Can you add MASS to the hit through sound arm/wrist/stressed shaft at impact structure?)

Should look up threads by mandrin.....also a thread called "ISRAD" which I believe basically summed it up.
 
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birdie_man

birdie_man

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BTW it will for sure not kill you to hit down on your driver......more guys do it than most people think for one.................and secondly..........it's a lot better than flipping at it......which as I take it is what happens with a lot of people trying to hit up.

There's a bunch of Swing Visions on YouTube that clearly show the clubhead moving down.........these were on 300+ yard drives.

I remember a few from Tiger....from Vijay.....Mick.....I'm sure there are a good amount.

That being said........as I understand......"all other things being equal" (so to say).............hitting up will give you more distance.

Brian should chime in cause I'm just a forum guy but I think it's another "whatever works for you." (accuracy/distance tradeoff)
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Hit Up? Hit Down? Ball Spin?

I have caused quite a few stirs on the internet over the years. One of them is the "Manzella thinks you should hit down on a driver."

Do I?

Still?

Let's start with the STONE facts:

1. Some of the best golfers of all time, did hit down on their Driver, including some current ones. As BirdieMan said, SwingVison is prrof.

2. The so-called perfect tee shot "numbers," 13-15° of launch angle and 2200-2400 rpm of spin, are created by lots of differnet factors. Shallow angle of attack is one factor, but equipment optimization for YOUR swing is another.

3. How many shots will you hit IN PLAY on a TOUR COURSE or YOUR course using eiher the "try to hit up" or "try to hit down" methods?​


Believe it or not, I have hit quite a few balls on lauch monitors recently, and had LESS SPIN on my "try to hit down" swings than my "try to hit up or level" ones. :eek:
 
J

JeffM

New member
Steve

It is not clear to me why hitting down on the ball (descending clubhead path) will cause i) more backspin and ii) less distance.

It would seem to me that the golf ball doesn't know 'a priori' the direction of the clubhead swingpath and it simply reacts as David Tutelman describes here.

http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/swing2.php?ref=

The direction of the ball flight is intermediate between the clubface angle and the clubhead path. Presume that one swings slightly downwards (two degrees downwards) with a driver and that the descending path will "functionally" deloft the driver, and "functionally" turn a 12 degree loft into a 10 degree loft. That change in loft will actually be equivalent to DECREASING the steepness of the clubface angle - see blue arrowed direction in this diagram - http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/pix/swing_impactRelease.jpg

That should result in a lower launch angle. Combine that fact with a clubhead path which is angled 2 degrees more toward the ground (equivalent to that green arrow in that diagram) should make the launch angle even lower, and possibly INCREASE distance rather than decrease distance.

Also, David Tutelman has this graph - http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/pix/swing_spin.gif - which shows that spin-rpm is dependent on loft, and a delofted club will produce less spin. It is my understanding that a descending clubhead swingpath decreases loft, and theoretically may decrease spin.

Jeff.
 
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daniell

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Go to Youtube and look up a vid call "Science of Golf". It comes in 7 parts. In one part, there's a short clip on someguy clubfitting a driver.

Basically, what they were trying to do is to effectively work out a shaft, driver, ball combination that will have the ball come out the clubface at 2000 to 3000 rpm and also the correct launch angle of between 11 to 14 deg (I think). So yes, you could hit down on the ball, just go get a good clubfitter.

Hitting up has a problem. If lowpoint is at your left shoulder, isn't:

(1) the ball too far forward?
(2) the clubface closing left, and thus ball will likely start left first?

But hey, don't take my words for it. I'm a bad golfer so what do I know.

cheers,

daniel
 
D

daniell

New
Here's the link"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-JN3G9zEHY&mode=related&search=".

Title is "Science of Golf (Power, Part 7)".
 
R

Ringer

New
Hmmm.. Brian is the only one that seems to have anything to say about the actual subject at hand. I'm talking specifically about the increase of spin because of a descending blow.

I think he's right in that you can still be within the parameters suggested for spin and trajectory even with a descending blow. So would this be optimal? Or is it a situation where as long as you hit the numbers, who cares if you're hitting up or down?
 
R

Ringer

New
JeffMann said:
Steve

It is not clear to me why hitting down on the ball (descending clubhead path) will cause i) more backspin and ii) less distance.

It would seem to me that the golf ball doesn't know 'a priori' the direction of the clubhead swingpath and it simply reacts as David Tutelman describes here.

http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/swing2.php?ref=

The direction of the ball flight is intermediate between the clubface angle and the clubhead path. Presume that one swings slightly downwards (two degrees downwards) with a driver and that the descending path will "functionally" deloft the driver, and "functionally" turn a 12 degree loft into a 10 degree loft. That change in loft will actually be equivalent to DECREASING the steepness of the clubface angle - see blue arrowed direction in this diagram - http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/pix/swing_impactRelease.jpg

That should result in a lower launch angle. Combine that fact with a clubhead path which is angled 2 degrees more toward the ground (equivalent to that green arrow in that diagram) should make the launch angle even lower, and possibly INCREASE distance rather than decrease distance.

Also, David Tutelman has this graph - http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/pix/swing_spin.gif - which shows that spin-rpm is dependent on loft, and a delofted club will produce less spin. It is my understanding that a descending clubhead swingpath decreases loft, and theoretically may decrease spin.

Jeff.
Click to expand...


It's quite simple Jeff. There is a point on the golf ball where the club is impacting the ball. If that point rotates around the balls CG, then spin will be created. Unless you want to dispute that point graphs and data are really quite irrelevant.

I'm curious HOW Brian would have decreased spin with his descending blow. Perhaps a change of equipment?

Maybe he hit higher on the face when he tries to hit UP, but strikes it lower on the face when he hit's down, thus placing the CG of the clubhead closer to level with the CG of the ball.
 
J

jewofgolf

New
There are plenty of options out there to allow you to hit down the driver the way your supposed to and acheive optimum spin and launch numbers, even though hitting down on the ball should produce more spin. Different COG locations and shafts can produce all sorts of different numbers.
 
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