Hitting Toe Shots?

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corky05

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The forgiveness of modern golf equipment masks bad ball striking. Hit balls yesterday, all shots appearing to be appropriate traj. & distance? Slightly right of target. Marked balls w/ washable marker and proceeded to hit more shots of similar traj. & dist. . Mark on clubface had impact occuring on the toe and low on the grooves. I could not find the sweet spot until I moved my weight at address toward my heels and I addressed the ball on the toe of my clubface. Started puring ball, but feel this is compensating for other issues. I'm a hitter,not a swinger.
Very early in my Jr golf days moving the ball from right to left was in vogue. The few times I have seen my swing on video it seems like I'm always coming into the ball from the inside. I have really been working drills to reinforce the plane line, but I think the muscle memory is so ingrained now that I'm middle-aged. My miss is no longer a snap hook, Its a push. I find this an improvement, not very many double bogeys. My instincts are telling me, I'm begining to come into the ball a little less from the inside, but I'm either not actively shutting the clubface because I'm a reformed hooker, or, I'm still aligning on the tee like a guy who expects the ball to draw and I'm hitting it straighter. Any thoughts?
 
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Ringer

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You can move the ball slightly more forward in your stance but keep the same aiming point.

Lots of ways to resolve a constant toe strike.
 
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corky05

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Brian, What would make you come to that conclusion? And why does my addressing the ball on the toe and my weight being more on my heels offset that? Thanks! Rich
 
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corky05

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Its funny you would say that, because I cut my Driver down, one and a half inches about 3 weeks ago. I've lost no distance and its been the straightest in a long while. Wouldn't cutting it down make it more upright?
 
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bsbsbs

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Cutting it down makes it flatter, you won't notice it on the driver because the ball is on the tee. Every half inch shorter you go 1 degree flatter, every half inch longer you go up 1 degree.
if you bend a club upright you lower swingweight. opposite for flattening the lie.
 
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corky05

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BSBSBS< I'm just heading to a halloween party, but I'll have to disagree with the cutting it down makes it flatter. Try choking up on your club? Talk to you guys when I get back! Happy Halloween from the "Big Bad Wolf"
 
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bsbsbs

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http://www.dynacraftgolf.com/techtips/techtip.cfm?tipid=109

I am doing this from memory the course I worked at was a Henry Griffits dealer. My buddy was a certified fitter, but I went thru the manual several times. It was not uncommon if you had someone who fitted out very upright (more than a club could be bent) say 6 degrees to be fitted at 4 degrees upright and an inch long. Think of it like this if you had a club that was correctly fit, and you cut an inch off of it. Its gonna force you closer to the ball to make a swing when you come in the toe goes down, the club is too flat. If you lengthen the same club 2" its gonna back you off and the toe is gonna be up in the air. That may not be the best visual reference you can get, but thats about as good as I can get. And remember measured lie never changes cause you are always measuring a club soled flat, we're talking "effective" lie, the lie the club plays at because of what it does to your swing.
 
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bsbsbs

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You can also build a hook into your game by being a little upright. You can get rid of a little hook by getting more neutral, but I've never seen anybody hit it worth a crap being too flat.
 
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rwh

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quote:Originally posted by bsbsbs

Cutting it down makes it flatter, you won't notice it on the driver because the ball is on the tee. Every half inch shorter you go 1 degree flatter, every half inch longer you go up 1 degree.
if you bend a club upright you lower swingweight. opposite for flattening the lie.
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1. If you haven't adjusted the lie angle, the club has exactly the same lie as before you cut the shaft.

2. The short clubs have the most upright lie (e.g., wedge = 64 degrees) and the Driver has the flattest lie (appx. 58 degrees).

3, Adjusting the lie has no effect on swingweight.
 
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bsbsbs

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1) If you would read my second post we are not talking measured lie we are talking "effective" lie the way the club plays for you

2) The shorter clubs are built with the most upright lie because if they didn't at the shorter length they would be too flat. the toe has to come up as you get closer to the ball

3) Yet another factor is swingweight is a changing the lie of a club. If lie changes of 3 degrees are made, an 1-swingweight change occurs in the club. If the lies are made flatter, the swingweight increases by 1 point, if the lies are made more upright the swingweight decreases by a point. This change is caused by the position of the weight in relation to the balance of the club. Flattening the lie moves weight away from the fulcrum of the scale, creating a heavier club. The opposite is true when making the lie more upright.
excerpted from http://www.equip2golf.com/clubmakin...?jackson_articles/swingweight.html~clubmaking

although I was taught 2 degrees rather than 3. And the design of the head can make it more significant than that.:D
 
rwh

rwh

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quote:Originally posted by bsbsbs

1) If you would read my second post we are not talking measured lie we are talking "effective" lie the way the club plays for you

2) The shorter clubs are built with the most upright lie because if they didn't at the shorter length they would be too flat. the toe has to come up as you get closer to the ball

3) Yet another factor is swingweight is a changing the lie of a club. If lie changes of 3 degrees are made, an 1-swingweight change occurs in the club. If the lies are made flatter, the swingweight increases by 1 point, if the lies are made more upright the swingweight decreases by a point. This change is caused by the position of the weight in relation to the balance of the club. Flattening the lie moves weight away from the fulcrum of the scale, creating a heavier club. The opposite is true when making the lie more upright.
excerpted from http://www.equip2golf.com/clubmakin...?jackson_articles/swingweight.html~clubmaking

although I was taught 2 degrees rather than 3. And the design of the head can make it more significant than that.:D
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I misunderstood. You were saying the lie of the cut down club becomes too flat and that is correct. I apologize.

Secondly, although I confess to being slightly bumfuzzled as to how lie adjustment affects the reading on a swing weight scale, Jeff Jackson does say that in the article and he knows a lot more about these things than I. Accordingly, apology #2 is also tendered.[:I] [B)]
 
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bsbsbs

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No problem. It helps if you look at in a extreme view. if you were sitting in a chair holding a golf club baseball bat etc.. your arms are extended straight out in front of you and the club points to the sky. Let the club tilt back toward your head(keeping your arms straight) feel how the club feels lighter. now tilt it away from you. the more you tilt it the heavier and heavier it feels as you go to horizontal. Didn't believe it myself when I first read it until I actually saw it done on a scale.
 
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corky05

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Swingweight I get. Making the club shorter, makes it flatter, I don't. So if my club is 8 feet long thats going to be more upright than if my club is 3 feet long? I don't get it?
 
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Ringer

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Cutting it makes the toe point into the ground more.. how about we say that and get rid of the confusion. If anything, he should make his clubs LONGER or more upright of a lie angle.. but I am not convinced it's a club problem. Always difficult to tell without actually seeing the motion and the divot/lie angle board.
 
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bsbsbs

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Originally posted by Ringer

Cutting it makes the toe point into the ground more.. how about we say that and get rid of the confusion.
Thats what WAS said. Absolutely if he lengthened his clubs they are going to play more upright, but would he sacrifice swinging in balance. A good reason to be accurately fit.

corky if you had a club that was 8 ft long you would have an extremely flat swing plane, but without adjusting the lie of the clubhead the toe would be poiting way up in the air which is an Upright condition.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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corky05

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BSBSBS, I'm sorry I always thought that the upright or flat was relative to the shaft coming out of the hosel, not whether the toe of the club was up in air or touching the ground. I am also under the impression that the toe is supposed to be slightly up, because during the downswing there is some bend in the club due to the weight of the head and that it will actually be more flat to the ground at impact. Is that correct?
 
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bsbsbs

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Sorry missed your other post, some players more than others but yes the club does toe down thru the downswing. Had a friend that was 4 up and I was like I don't know, but you could look at the impact on the face and on the lie board and it was dead on for him. Mine personally are 1* up 3/4" long so effective 2.5* up, but I'm 6'3".
 
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