Hitting vs. Swinging, Brian vs. Phil

[azgolfer]

Brian, can you comment on the differences here ?

Phil actually goes farther back, but I tried to match up your positions. (Sequence at GolfDigest.com)

From one of your posts :

SWINGER:

Backswing goes to the END (Like Phil M.) sweetspot (clubface) and #3 pressure point rotes 90 degrees open (in the book 'a quarter turn'), downstroke the golfer PULLS the club lengthwise and the clubface rotates closed (horizontal hinging) on its own (sweetspot lining up with the swing).

HITTER:

Backswing goes to the TOP (Like Brian M.) sweetspot (clubface) and #3 pressure point does not rotate open al ALL, downstroke the golfer PUSHES (or drives) the club ACROSS THE SHAFT and the clubface does not close (angled hinging).

By the way, thanks for hosting, and running this site.

 

[ryantiff]

Is it true since hitting does not turn the left wrist, so at the tall swinging has a more open club face as compare wih hitting? The right forearm for hitting face more downward to the ground than swinging?

 

[bts]

It sounds Brian has more "LAG" than Phil at this stage.

 

[mgjordan]

The main difference in the pictures is that Brian is done going back and will start thrusting against his pressure points to load the shaft and take it into the ball while Phil will keep going beyond parallel so he can load the shaft with a change of direction and then "crank the gyroscope" and hold on to his finish.

 

[njmp2]

quote:Originally posted by azgolfer

Brian, can you comment on the differences here ?



Phil actually goes farther back, but I tried to match up your positions. (Sequence at GolfDigest.com)

From one of your posts :

SWINGER:

Backswing goes to the END (Like Phil M.) sweetspot (clubface) and #3 pressure point rotes 90 degrees open (in the book 'a quarter turn'), downstroke the golfer PULLS the club lengthwise and the clubface rotates closed (horizontal hinging) on its own (sweetspot lining up with the swing).

The two pictures do not match.
The realignment of pp3 is the FEEL of a quarter turn, which in a circle IS 90 degrees. No real movement of the pp just the turning of the hand. What is on the side is now underneath but the "point remains the same" (old led Zep song, isn't it?). In the pics the hand position of Phil and Bri look the same, need better frames.

The clubhead squaring is NOT horizontal hinging. That is centrifugal force doing its thing. Horizontal Hinging is applied from impact to follow through.

quote:
HITTER:

Backswing goes to the TOP (Like Brian M.) sweetspot (clubface) and #3 pressure point does not rotate open al ALL, downstroke the golfer PUSHES (or drives) the club ACROSS THE SHAFT and the clubface does not close (angled hinging).

The sweetspot is on the clubface but the clubface isn't the whole sweet spot. The sweet spot is a plane (line really) that starts at pp3 and extends in a straight line to the center of the clubface. We swing this line to impact. The shaft is just a connecting rod to the clubhead. A center shafted club would have the sweet spot and shaft line the same.
The pushing of the right arm produces the angled hinge, the clubface squres itself as the clubhead is pushed. It doesn't close but does square itself but the relentless pushing of the right arm.

quote:
By the way, thanks for hosting, and running this site.

Yes thank you.

 

[Triad]

NJMP2 said:
[/quote]
The realignment of pp3 is the FEEL of a quarter turn, which in a circle IS 90 degrees. No real movement of the pp just the turning of the hand. What is on the side is now underneath but the "point remains the same" (old led Zep song, isn't it?). In the pics the hand position of Phil and Bri look the same, need better frames.

quote:

I have never fully understood this concept of a 'quarter turn' at the Top. Homer states clearly that it is a FEEL of a turn, but nothing actualy moves, not the hands or the #3pp.

If, once I get to the Top, I arch my left wrist, I can get this feeling on the #3, but this is apparently wrong since nothing is supposed to move.

How does one FEEL a quarter turn that doesn't actually occur?

Triad

 

[njmp2]

PP3 will always be in the same location on the shaft-that doesn't move. The hand does, a quarter turn to the right is a 90 degree move- which is a 1/4 of a circle, a quarter turn. PP3 didn't move in relation to the shaft it is still on the side except now the side of the shaft is underneath the clouds, the sky, the moon and stars, that old holding a tray position. If pp3 was a flashlight, at address it would shine more or less to the left, at top, it will shine straght up into the sky. It didn't move, just the hand turned.
Arching the left wrist, I don't know, works for Lehman. I perfer it FLAT at the top, makes life simply. FLAT LEFT.....FLAT LEFT.... FLAT LEFT. WHen I snap my fingers you will set at the top with a FLAT LEFT. <snap>

 

[azgolfer]

I think now that the club gets to the same place, just gradual angled hinging (hitting) or swivel and straight up (swinging). Downswing is the same, gradual angled release (hitting) or drop and swivel (swinging). I've got a book handy now so I will try to post references when I get a chance.

 

[azgolfer]

Ok, I checked again, to see where the differences were on the backswing and downswing, and I don't see any ! Apparently, Brian (the lucky bastard) swings pretty much the same as Phil. Check these out:

The only real difference I see is at follow through, where Phil swivels more,

and Phil goes all the way to END