Hogan and " Swivel ".

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Hi all. I'm new here so please cut me some slack. :)

I've read TGM before, but it's been a while. I think it's boxed up somewhere, but I'll get it out tonight. I did purchase the " flipper " video last weekend, and it's excellent.

My question is; what exactly is this " swivel " everyone talks about, and can someone show a pic or tell me where to look to see it in Hogan's swing? I've searched the archive, but have yet to find a decent explanation.

Thanks.
 
I had the hardest time figuring out what swivel VS roll was. This is from YODA and helped out alot:

1. Extend your Left Arm directly in front of your Left Shoulder and parallel to the ground (horizontal). Put your Left Hand into a Karate Chop position.

2. Keeping your Left Shoulder and Body stationary, move the Arm back and forth, just like a gate would swing on its hinges. This is a horizontal hinge action.

3. Once again assume the position in #1 above.

4. This time, do not swing your arm back and forth. Instead, keep it still, and twist the forearm. First palm down. Then, palm up. This is a Swivel Action.
 

SOS

New
Great explanation!!! So, would not swivel = roll? When does it occur in a swing / hit?

SOS


quote:Originally posted by KappaRaider

I had the hardest time figuring out what swivel VS roll was. This is from YODA and helped out alot:

1. Extend your Left Arm directly in front of your Left Shoulder and parallel to the ground (horizontal). Put your Left Hand into a Karate Chop position.

2. Keeping your Left Shoulder and Body stationary, move the Arm back and forth, just like a gate would swing on its hinges. This is a horizontal hinge action.

3. Once again assume the position in #1 above.

4. This time, do not swing your arm back and forth. Instead, keep it still, and twist the forearm. First palm down. Then, palm up. This is a Swivel Action.
 

dbl

New
Good question. May as well throw in Horizontal Hinge. It and roll and swivel all feel the same to me coming into impact.
 

matt

New
Hinging is simply remaining perpendicular to one of the three basic planes (vertical, angled, or horizontal). There is no 'independent' roll.

Swivel IS an independent roll outside of the selected hinge action. Through impact the roll is simply the hinge (this is NOT swiveling), then as the clubhead goes past the hands the left wrist is forced to swivel back up the plane and everything else doesn't keep up. This independent-of-everything-else roll is swivel.

I personally think way too much is made of swiveling. Unless you're chicken-winging after impact, you're swiveling.
 
quote:Originally posted by matt

Hinging is simply remaining perpendicular to one of the three basic planes (vertical, angled, or horizontal). There is no 'independent' roll.

Swivel IS an independent roll outside of the selected hinge action. Through impact the roll is simply the hinge (this is NOT swiveling), then as the clubhead goes past the hands the left wrist is forced to swivel back up the plane and everything else doesn't keep up. This independent-of-everything-else roll is swivel.

I personally think way too much is made of swiveling. Unless you're chicken-winging after impact, you're swiveling.

Matt knows his stuff in case anyone didn’t notice. Much is made of this geometric on-plane safety valve. But we all learned it at one point or another, so here goes....


Few points on swivel.
Swivel is not a segment of any hinge action. Hinge Action is a non-swivel action.
Swivel is also independent of the forearms final roll after impact, although with a true swinger the long smooth turn (to right) and roll (back to left) of the hands we blend the swivel seamlessly.
Swivel is more “active”immediately after impact in a Swing stroke and less active and occurs later in the Hit stroke.

So what is it? I like to think of the swivel in a Swing Stroke Pattern as a safely valve to allow the left wrist to remain flat and prevent any throw-away that centrifugal force is pressing to achieve and to allow the club to stay on plane into the follow through.

The swivel action occurs after impact, after the hinge motion and is a slight subtle turn to the left of the flat straight wrist. Remember, it is the left wrist that controls the clubface in the hinge action and the right hand controls the clubhead. Left is passive and the right is power. However with the swivel, the left wrist is more active than it was applying the hinge action. Without the swivel the club would have no chance being on plane into the follow through and without it the swing would end awkward. .
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Swivel:

The action of the left hand that turns the clubface to the plane on the backstroke, rolls it to vertical prior to release and turns it BACK on the plane after the follow-through.

Hinge Action:

The action of the left hand during the imapct interval (which can be applied as early as release point and as late as to the follow-through).
 

dbl

New
As a swinger karate chops down down towards the ball, the left arm will have to roll. And it is not, coming into impact, perpenduclar to a horizontal plane till the final microseconds. So to me anyway, HH seems like a less important feature of the action, than the roll. Swivel sounds like it is an action outside of the impact area, either before on the backswing or after to get things replaned. Or do I have still have this confused some?

Also, while we're on this topic of arm motions: for the hitter who paddlewheels on the way down, isn't the paddlewheel just a constant rolling of the left arm?
 

matt

New
quote:Originally posted by dbl

As a swinger karate chops down down towards the ball, the left arm will have to roll. And it is not, coming into impact, perpenduclar to a horizontal plane till the final microseconds. So to me anyway, HH seems like a less important feature of the action, than the roll.

The left wrist is never actually vertical to the horizontal plane in a golf stroke. It's on the inclined plane, so to give the clubface the motion of being on a horizontal plane, the feel for a horizontal hinge is a "full roll" - a 1/4 turn past impact.

quote:Swivel sounds like it is an action outside of the impact area, either before on the backswing or after to get things replaned. Or do I have still have this confused some?

Yes.

quote:Also, while we're on this topic of arm motions: for the hitter who paddlewheels on the way down, isn't the paddlewheel just a constant rolling of the left arm?

Yes. Constant closing.
 

dbl

New
Thanks for the replies. I'm working on when and where to do the 1/4 (or 1/2) roll in the downswing, and the above responses have been very helpful. I've got outside and tried a few things, both hitting and swinging. :)
 
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