"Hogan's Secret"- yes, he really had one (Audio)

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fmlutz

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Great audio on Hogan, Brian! I went to the range last night and really weakened my grip like Hogan, very much in the palm (usually my grip is slightly strong). When I hit some shots they all went right with a slice or fade. I felt like there was no way I could even get a straight shot. Then I concentrated on rolling the left arm hard and fast and the shots went dead straight. THe harder I released, the straighter the shots went. I now understand why Hogan wanted this grip. I could only draw it slightly but it felt like the toe was hitting the ball first! I couldn't believe how fast I had to rotate the left arm- it was difficult to do, but the ball would not go left. I am glad I do not play that way- My grip is stronger and I don't have to try to rotate the left arm as much. However, if I ever have trouble with hooking- I will remember Hogan secret. Thanks!

Mike
 
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David Alford

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ej20, you are right, there are some differences compared to Hogan. This pic is not my normal swing, but a right arm hitting model. I "swing" in many different ways.

Brian go ahead and post the sequence over in the Golf Swing Videos and Sequences. I'm leaving for a long trip to Tasmania & can't reshoot anything at this time.

Re: laugh, I paid you a compliment. I like Moe Norman's downswing very much. You have nice lag.

I'm just hard to please. I'm quite unhappy if every shot I hit isn't dead perfect. I'm even unhappy if the ball flight is perfect but the "feel" through the clubhhead isn't. No, no, no, NO!
 
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Mathew

Banned
While you are in a great "position" (Im starting to not like that word) for a swinger and by all accounts you are a pretty decent player. I would still seriously doubt that is a hitting model David - Feel vs Real.....

You have too much accumulator lag (wrist cock held deep in the downswing) to be drive loading(hitting)..... your release is still sequenced as apposed to the simultaneous release of the hitter.....

You are still swinging in the pic on your homepage
 
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David Alford

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I've started a thread in the Swing Video/Sequence forum for Brian to post the entire sequence. Hopefully this will show more clearly it is a hit.

If I was swinging there would be more lower body leg drive. My lower body is only moving as a result of what the upper body is doing.

Further, the full sequence shows I retain left knee flex post impact longer than I do when I'm swinging.

Re: accumulator lag being greater than expected, I drove the right wrist angle like my life depended upon it.
 
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EdZ

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Having see David's motion hitting and swinging, the differences are quite subtle visually, in full motion, but you can see them. IMO he tends to 'look' like a swinger (wonderful tempo), however the differences in power sources and hinge motions are there - just not as dramatic as say between Palmer and Stewart for example. Many people would look at Mickey Wright and see 'swinger' because of her tempo, and 'hitter' because of her moves. The differences between hit and swing are not always so obvious. In fact, the less obvious they are, the better the swing IMO.
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

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I don't think there is too much gray area between hitting and swinging. If you are accelerating the club longitudinally, you are swinging (trying to yank the grip off of the club, trying to pull the grip into the ball) and if you are pushing the club through the ball (hit the hell out of it with your right hand, drive your right arm down and through) then you re hitting. If you go to the end of the swing and then push, you are still hitting, just with a less effective component. If you use the arc of approach and push, you are still hitting, just with a less effective component. If you have an active, quick pivot and push, you are still hitting, just with a less effective component. If you use a horizontal hinge and push, you are still hitting, just with a less effective component. The way you move the club is the bottom line...not tempo, not hinge action, not what the right knee does on the backswing, not plane, etc. How you move the club.
 
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David Alford

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The way I look at the golf swing, there is pulling, hitting, swinging, and hybrid actions. From what I've heard, HK prefers to categorize the golf swing as hitting or swinging.

In the sequence (12 pics as I recall) we're WAITING for Brian to post, the only thing that moves the club and anything else (legs, hips, etc.) is the right arm and right wrist. And basically, it's pretty much right wrist. Rather remarkable when you think about it.

Yoda has a sequence of me swinging. If he reads this, I grant him permission to post the sequence & the differences will be more apparent.

When I switch from swinging to hitting, I usually make several other adjustments such as in stance, setup, etc. to "fine tune" the different
power source(s). But that is not necessary. And if I don't do that, most people would not be able to distinguish the subtle differences, esp. without looking at video or pics.

There is a video clip of Yoda demonstrating swinging and hitting that proves this point, i.e., they look virtually the same.

The interested reader may want to compare my full hitting sequence with Yoda's...they show a remarkable similarity.
 
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EdZ

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I love how much of our 'modern' culture is stuck in dual modes of thinking. "Hit vs Swing" is nothing more than a spectrum - granted there is a very small area of overlap - like landing a coin on its side - but to ignore the fundamental nature of continuum is an ironic twist to the human lens. Gotta love those Greeks, we are still 'thinking' the way they filtered the world for us.

MG - the visual and the 'feel' are different animals. You can hit or swing and 'look' very similar, and it was the outward appearance I was talking about, not the players feel of how they support the on plane swinging force.
 
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David Alford

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Well said, Ed.

Personally, this is not my favorite model because of the way it feels (100% right power). It does offer a wonderful alternative for many players who have a tough time with a swing model.

With a small modication, it does absolutely excel on high pitch shots.
 
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Mathew

Banned
Really it comes down to two things - are you using muscular thrust or centrifugal force - You cannot use both.... there is no grey area..... it is not a spectrum....

David is still swinging.... he has longitudally accelerated the club - His hands are still against the plane delaying the release of his no.2 accumulator (trigger delay) requiring a release swivel into horizontal hinging.... Instead of using his right arm to do a simultaneous full sweep release of accumulators 1,2 and 3, no swivel into the angled hinge action.....

There is no grey area, there is no spectrum....

Muscular thrust or no muscular thrust....
 
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EdZ

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Mathew, there is ALWAYS a spectrum

quick - how many numbers are between 0 and 1?

When does a number stop being 0 and start being 1?

Granted, for practicle purposes we all agree to 'define' certain things about 0 and 1 - all of which is at root, a shared illusion.

So it may be the case that for application sake we can think hit or swing, but to not see the spectrum that lies between them is a limiting view IMO.

To each their own though.

And if your left hand pull is exactly the same rate/force as your right hand push? The club may 'feel' as if it floats in your hands, yet it will still be HEAVY, and you will feel all the pressure points at once.

The coin, landing on its side. The mid-point between 0 and 1.
 
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David Alford

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EdZ has seen a video where I (briefly) describe several "swing" models including hitting and then perform them. Additionally, there was an uninterrupted sequence showing ball striking that was neither hitting nor swinging, but pulling.

Greg, has seen me demonstrate right elbow hitting as an additional alternative to swinging. I can "swing" in many different ways, including some models I don't think HK knew about.

All of my investigations into the golf swing has come from my own efforts, as I really know very little about what TGM says.

In the golf swing video and sequence forum, I started a thread "David A. Demonstrates A Golfing Machine Swing", but that is really incorrect.

It's my swing. I learned it on my own by exploring golf swing possibilities. I never adapted anything from TGM! I know the right hand hitting model is popular with TGM afficionados, which is why I wanted to demonstrate it.

It's not the end all. Now, it's easy for someone to say that if they don't know it. I think the full sequence shows I know it well. I'm not criticizing it as my previous post in this thread explains.

Brian said he would post the full sequence, but hasn't. Some of those pics show the transition from backswing to downswing & show where the "late release" comes from early on.

FYI, I practiced bending my right wrist back, forcibly stretching the muscles, so I would feel a 90 degree wrist bend.
 
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David Alford

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I'm not sure I saved them either. I'm leaving shortly for an expedition to find the thylacine. If they're on my laptop and I can get a connection Down Under I'll send them, assuming the tiger doesn't eat me. haha
 
Burner

Burner

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quote:Originally posted by David Alford

I'm not sure I saved them either. I'm leaving shortly for an expedition to find the thylacine. If they're on my laptop and I can get a connection Down Under I'll send them, assuming the tiger doesn't eat me. haha
Click to expand...
Case y'all was a wonderin':-

quote:the thylacine (Thylacinus cynocephalus) is one of the most fabled animals in the world. Yet, despite its fame, it is one of the least understood of Tasmania's native animals.
Click to expand...
 
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EdZ

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DA - head over to Kangaroo Island, cool place with lots of critters (drive slowly, they are EVERYWHERE at sunset) - Saw a platypus there, what a rare and funky creature indeed.
 
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ej20

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quote:Originally posted by David Alford

I'm not sure I saved them either. I'm leaving shortly for an expedition to find the thylacine. If they're on my laptop and I can get a connection Down Under I'll send them, assuming the tiger doesn't eat me. haha
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Tasmanian Tigers are extinct.There have been numerous sightings but none have been confirmed.Bit like Bigfoot and the Lochness monster.

Good luck with your search but I suspect it will be in vain.Bit like searching for a correct,powerful,repeating golf swing :)
 
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