Hope for the frail and lanky golfers

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mandrin

mandrin

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Both GPM1985 and dbl asked me to show a bit of light on the possible role played by the length of arm and golf club in a golfer's down swing. I will come back on the length aspect of club/arms but will analyze first the arms/hands mass aspect, keeping length the same.

An interesting feature of math models is to readily allow studying trends not so easy done otherwise. It takes however some time to do these things so I can't do it too often. :) But for the moment for all those science aficionados populating this forum have a look.

 
Chip Putterman

Chip Putterman

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Taking into account that a taller golfer generally has longer arms and a shorter golfer has shorter arms, both will have their hands approximately the same distance from the ground at impact. Do you think this is significant in producing similar results? Or is lever length more important?
 
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JonWil

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Mandrin - I want to believe. And I remember your précis on propagation from a while back. But, the heavy hit, big guys slamming down hard, shaft bending, ball sizzling – sailing for miles, I want to let that go and I can not. I am ashamed!:)
 
mandrin

mandrin

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Chip Putterman said:
Taking into account that a taller golfer generally has longer arms and a shorter golfer has shorter arms, both will have their hands approximately the same distance from the ground at impact. Do you think this is significant in producing similar results? Or is lever length more important?
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Chip,

Two factors are important:

1) The mass, and,

2) Its distribution.

The mass distribution is quite important as it determines the moment of inertia, which is a measure for the resistance to rotation.

For instance imagine a person with long thin arms but rather large hands.

Not that much mass but still rather large moment of inertia as a fair mass is situated at the distal end, hence maximum contribution to the moment of inertia.

Length directly effects mass distribution and hence important in determining the value of the moment of inertia.

I can't think of anything significant relating to small differences in height of hands above ground.
 
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dbl

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Thanks Mandiin, we are on our way.

I will comment that these results seems pretty intuitive. People with heavier arms expend more energy than smaller people to move their arms in addition to the clubhead. This would come into play in a variety other sports, either ones using sticks or not. For example a larger/tall runner similarly requires more energy to move his limbs than a shorter runner.

A larger person with larger muscles may be able to keep up so to speak with the smaller player, but I do not know where the limits of reasonableness are. A 10 foot tall person may not have the muscles to accelerate his arms equal to what a 5'8" person might. However it does seem those ex-basketball players are hitting 280-300yd drives.
 
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GPM1985

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If you're tall, you probably have to be strong and quick to move that meat around. This is true in many sports. Just ask Shawn Bradley.
 
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jonnygrouville

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Not entirely relevant, but something I have always hated is commentators saying 'he has good touch for a big man' as if everyone over six feet tall is some kind of clumsy ogre with hands like feet.

Might be another anatomical reason as the nerve pulses have to travel for an extra nanosecond, but I am sure we all know big guys with great short games and smaller ones that can't chip for toffee.
 
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mew09golfer

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Seems like the "heavier" the arms the better, assuming rotational speed is maintained.
Kinetic energy being mass x velocity.

So, what about swinging a club with weights attached to your forearms seeking to maintain velocity?
 
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spktho

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The greater mass means that it takes more energy for the golfer to gain the same velocity as a golfer with arms of less mass. If a person puts weights on their forearms, then they will have to expend more energy to get the velocity that they would obtain without the weights. I don't get what is meant my "maintaining velocity" by adding weights to the forearm?
 
mandrin

mandrin

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spktho said:
The greater mass means that it takes more energy for the golfer to gain the same velocity as a golfer with arms of less mass. If a person puts weights on their forearms, then they will have to expend more energy to get the velocity that they would obtain without the weights.
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On the dot. :)
 
J

JonWil

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spktho said:
The greater mass means that it takes more energy for the golfer to gain the same velocity as a golfer with arms of less mass. If a person puts weights on their forearms, then they will have to expend more energy to get the velocity that they would obtain without the weights. I don't get what is meant my "maintaining velocity" by adding weights to the forearm?
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mandrin said:
On the dot. :)
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Would not all sets of arms, 'thick','thin','weighted','unweighted', if in total free-fall, accelerate the same?
 
dominicscaife

dominicscaife

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Has anyone tried swinging with wrist weights on and off on trackman and reported back their findings?

It would be interesting experiment to try...
 
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spktho

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JonWil said:
Would not all sets of arms, 'thick','thin','weighted','unweighted', if in total free-fall, accelerate the same?
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In a vacuum separate from any forces other than gravity, yes.

But, forgive me if I butcher this Mandrin, the study is analyzing a system. Part of the system is the energy needed to get the arms "up" in order to let them "fall".
 
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JonWil

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spktho said:
In a vacuum separate from any forces other than gravity, yes.

But, forgive me if I butcher this Mandrin, the study is analyzing a system. Part of the system is the energy needed to get the arms "up" in order to let them "fall".
Click to expand...

Good point. Well said.
 
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