Horizontal Swing Plane and Hand Path Question

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Tophdad

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Assuming identical hand paths (and same aim/target), is it possible to have a significantly different HSP numbers?

Example:

First shot: you swing 2 degrees in to out (+2).
Second shot: you swing 2 degrees out to in (-2).

Is it possible to produce both those shots with the same hand path?
(I am hoping the answer is no . . . this game is hard enough)
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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The clubhead will TEND to follow the hands, but the clubhead plane is not always on the hand plane on the approach to impact. Remember, the left wrist can bend 360* in direction. I track the hand plane against the clubhead plane just before impact. The range for Tour pros is the clubhead on to under the hand plane, with most a little under, meaning the clubhead plane is slightly rightward of the hand plane.
 
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bluebird

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Consider if the clubhead was lagging behind the hands, the clubhead could swing freely on a horizontal arc. if we considered three positions in on that arc, a centered, an outside and a inside position. Now with the exact same handpath, up and around the natural arc, all three clubheads would track to the center path. So with the same handpath there could be an out to in, straight, or an in to out. So my vote is yes, it is possible if the clubhead wandered off line prior to. And the angle of attack and the whole D-plane thing could also apply in the vertical also.
 
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Lindsey Newman

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Absolutely, and the recognition of that can lead to tremendous improvement. One of the greatest tricks is swinging left without being outside in. An important part of forward lean if not the most important.
 
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bluebird

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To be fair, if the clubhead was coming in on plane the answer would change to a no. The Ideas release would intentionally bring the head below, then it's path would or could become straight, not circular. It's humbling to admit that six years of golf magazines and never a peep of this mentioned. Thanks Brian and Kevin.
 
JEREMY5577

JEREMY5577

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Lindsey Newman said:
Absolutely, and the recognition of that can lead to tremendous improvement. One of the greatest tricks is swinging left without being outside in. An important part of forward lean if not the most important.
Click to expand...
Huh... This thread just got very interesting.
Lindsey, are you saying: The more outward force applied the more the body has to react to swing left and that is the the trick?
 
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Lindsey Newman

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JEREMY5577 said:
Huh... This thread just got very interesting.
Lindsey, are you saying: The more outward force applied the more the body has to react to swing left and that is the the trick?
Click to expand...

I am really referring to trying to tumble a shaft that is already steep. The shaft must get shallow enough and the club head behind the hands enough before you can tumble it out. And, that's no matter what you're using to tumble.
 
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Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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There's an easy way to understand this. Once again, we have to refer to our double pendulum model. So, you connect two
sticks with a hinge than only allows the lower stick to hinge in one plane, like the hinges on one of those fold-out rulers. This is the clubhead (lower stick) swinging on the same plane as the hands (upper stick). BUT, the hinge that is the golfer's wrists are not restricted to swing in one plane, the same plane as the hands. The golfer's wrists are like a universal joint.
 
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