How can it not matter?
- Thread starter ggsjpc
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Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
It matters, just today it seems a bit over-blown.
If you listen to the pundits and are not pure ripped muscle and as flexible as gumby, have a size 27 waist and are not in the 99.99th percentile of the Presidents physical fitness test (a pretty hard test, btw) you have absolutely no shot at swinging the golf club....at all
If you listen to the pundits and are not pure ripped muscle and as flexible as gumby, have a size 27 waist and are not in the 99.99th percentile of the Presidents physical fitness test (a pretty hard test, btw) you have absolutely no shot at swinging the golf club....at all
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
It does matter. And anyone who says it doesnt, it full of sh**t. However, what I think guys like Brian, Guitar Hero, and myself find objectionable, is when some bail out when they dont know the fix and blame fitness on everything. Its like "when in doubt, blame lack of flexibility in the hip flexors."
mjstrong
New
It's important...
What about an approach that I think Brian and his teachers can relate to?
Let's assume that if the vast majority of PGA TOUR players do something, it can be considered not just beneficial for one's golf game, but pretty important: Flat left wrist at impact, flat left wrist at the top (Geoff Ogilvy being the exception), Kinematic Sequencing proof (of which both Brian and TPI are big believers in), having the club supported on the TSP at the top of the backswing, etc... I come to the conclusion that there are some things vital to golf at the highest level.
Well, why are we not allowed to apply that to the human body? If a vast majority of the PGA TOUR players have a particular range of motion in a given test, why would you not consider that just as important?
It makes sense to me that if a student simply does not have the physical ability to get into a better position in their golf swing, but I can give them that ability by assigning certain stretches and exercises, I have an additional tool at my expense to make somebody better.
Pretty simple, in my mind.
What about an approach that I think Brian and his teachers can relate to?
Let's assume that if the vast majority of PGA TOUR players do something, it can be considered not just beneficial for one's golf game, but pretty important: Flat left wrist at impact, flat left wrist at the top (Geoff Ogilvy being the exception), Kinematic Sequencing proof (of which both Brian and TPI are big believers in), having the club supported on the TSP at the top of the backswing, etc... I come to the conclusion that there are some things vital to golf at the highest level.
Well, why are we not allowed to apply that to the human body? If a vast majority of the PGA TOUR players have a particular range of motion in a given test, why would you not consider that just as important?
It makes sense to me that if a student simply does not have the physical ability to get into a better position in their golf swing, but I can give them that ability by assigning certain stretches and exercises, I have an additional tool at my expense to make somebody better.
Pretty simple, in my mind.
birdie_man
New
People use it as a band-aid and a cover-up (for what they may not know...or just because they don't know better) though I think mj.
I haven't seen it (I wouldn't be surprised though...) but it would be like someone taking a slicer and, without fixing his clubface first (root cause and what will yield the biggest improvement) tells him he just needs to get stronger and more flexible.
As far as I know Moe Norman and Ben Hogan could hit it on the button and where they wanted to late in their lives.
Brian talked about a 96 year old Errie Ball a while back even:
Errie Ball, the only living golfer to have played in the first Masters.
I can't imagine this guy is all that physically capable anymore (cept "for his age"- and it is impressive BTW) but he must be doing some things right.
What chance does he have to hit it like he does without a good golf swing?
I haven't seen it (I wouldn't be surprised though...) but it would be like someone taking a slicer and, without fixing his clubface first (root cause and what will yield the biggest improvement) tells him he just needs to get stronger and more flexible.
As far as I know Moe Norman and Ben Hogan could hit it on the button and where they wanted to late in their lives.
Brian talked about a 96 year old Errie Ball a while back even:
Errie Ball, the only living golfer to have played in the first Masters.
Brian said:
I can't imagine this guy is all that physically capable anymore (cept "for his age"- and it is impressive BTW) but he must be doing some things right.
What chance does he have to hit it like he does without a good golf swing?
birdie_man
New
BTW I was thinking and ya.....that guy must be in pretty phenomenal shape for a 95 year old. I hope my point wasn't lost in that example...
...
And I'm curious now...anyone know how far Sneads was hitting it before he died? Masters ceremonial tee shots?
(or did they grow the rough out...)
...
And I'm curious now...anyone know how far Sneads was hitting it before he died? Masters ceremonial tee shots?
(or did they grow the rough out...)
cmartingolf
New
Here's my thing on fitness:
If you are fit, you have potential for more MPH.
If you are not, you run the risk of injury and less than ideal MPH.
However, a fit guy with uneducated hands and a poor concept of the swing motion is just a rotten fit golfer.
A certified fatty pants with educated hands can play some golf. Maybe not at his potential, but can play none the less. I've met a bunch of those guys over the years.
If you are fit, you have potential for more MPH.
If you are not, you run the risk of injury and less than ideal MPH.
However, a fit guy with uneducated hands and a poor concept of the swing motion is just a rotten fit golfer.
A certified fatty pants with educated hands can play some golf. Maybe not at his potential, but can play none the less. I've met a bunch of those guys over the years.
Richie3Jack
New
I think fitness can *help*, but in no way do I believe that for somebody to make it on the PGA tour they have to be incredibly fit. One look at Tim Herron and John Daly will tell you different and I believe if Daly was more focused on golf, he could still be the same weight and be a very successful golfer. Fred Couples is hardly a fitness buff and still hits the ball quite well and finished 16th in driving distance in 2008. Not bad for a 48 year old guy with some back problems.
Like one poster said, I believe it's helpful but really overblown these days. Work on doing what you need to do to maintain or increase your flexibility and I think you'll be okay.
3JACK
Like one poster said, I believe it's helpful but really overblown these days. Work on doing what you need to do to maintain or increase your flexibility and I think you'll be okay.
3JACK
curtisj76
New
birdie_man
New
Guitar Hero
New member
I am all about fitness and was just cleared 4 months ago to start training again after 5 years. I dropped 60 pounds in 4 months and I am back to where I was when I had to stop weight training. You have to work out and eat right to stay fit and I know what it takes to do it well. It bothers me when chiropractors and therapists are telling the golf world what to do and call it golf fitness. They do not have a clue with the rubber bands and rubber balls they use. That stuff is for rehab. If a golfer wants to get fit and strong I tell them to forget about all the balance balls and rubber band BS and go to the gym and learn how to lift some weight. You will lean balance and how to move your body with old school free weights and dumb bells and it will help you golf game.
Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
So it's not alright for therapists and chiropractors to tell 'golfers' how to best improve their bodies, but it's ok for you to tell 'golfers' how to best look after their bodies????
This kind of comment is divisive, arrogant, and serves zero purpose.
Golf instructors should collaborate with those fitness instructors, therapists, chiropractors, physios, and the like that they hold in a high regard to get a better understanding if they wish to influence their students in ways of fitness, ... IF they do!
Meanwhile, lumping all therapists and chiropractors in a 'bad for golfers, we golf instructors know more about the body than they do' category, is akin to saying all golf instructors are bad. Maybe most are, but maybe some aren't.
GH, why don't you give us the run down on what you did to cause yourself pain, and how you fixed it, with whose help?
mjstrong
New
"fitness" can mean all manner of things...
John Daly (and I imagine Lumpy too) would pass most of the mobility tests with flying colours, despite his ever-growing gut.
John Daly (and I imagine Lumpy too) would pass most of the mobility tests with flying colours, despite his ever-growing gut.
mjstrong
New
Perfect. Or, have the golf instructor aware of the fitness needs and physiological relationships to the swing, but refer to the fitness experts on how to: increase strength, increase mobility, etc.
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Richie3Jack
New
Absolutely, both of them are very flexible. I think that's far more important than pumping a lot of iron. Tiger is much, much bigger than he was in '97 and I don't think it's added any distance to his ballstriking and I believe he's more innaccurate with the driver now than he was in the past.
3JACK
Guitar Hero
New member
I have nothing against chiropractors or therapist as I see both twice a week. The chiropractor does what he is trained to do on my back and the therapist does what she is trained to do with massage and stretching.
I have degenerated disks L-4, L-5 which causes daily sciatic pain. I have tried many things over the last 10 years but surgery and the only thing that helps is Spinal Decompression and it is temporary.
ggsjpc
New
Guitar Hero,
Based on your 20 years of research, are drills a good activity for motor skill retention?
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