How many swing thoughts?

[Lifter]

I have to say, this whole exploration of hip acceleration / deceleration is extremely technical and very difficult to follow. I feel like I would have to invest a HUGE amount of time in order to sufficiently understand the subject. Enough to improve my golf game, at least.

On the other hand, some folks out there are suggesting that if golfers truly want to improve, then they need to be working on upwards of ten body motions, all at the same time.

Now that is an argument that is easy to understand and think about. And I'm inclined to think that it's off the mark. If you're trying to work on 10+ swing changes all at the same time, you probably won't make truly lasting progress with any of them.

Couldn't we devote a little more time to this subject, which is easy to understand and a little less to the other one (difficult to understand)?

 

[Erik_K]

I asked this same question a year or two back. Brian said that one swing thought during a round was OK. Any more than that, and you will be paralyzed over the ball. There's a lot going on when you play golf and if, during a competitive round, I wanted to screw with someone's head...go ahead and tell them to start thinking about 10 things at once.

Similar ideas apply to practicing at the range. For a given session, say an hour, I don't think you'll accomplish much by working on 10 different things. You can probably tighten up 1-2 things for a given session and this needs to practiced several times over to force a habit, or groove.

A competent instructor will be able to look at swing and identify the flaws. You may very well have a half-dozen issues to correct but often there's a cause and effect nature of faults and by identifying the true culprit, you can probably eliminate many subsequent problems. How many people learned to fix the face, and then path, pivot, quality of strike all improved (along with saying "bye bye" to the slice)? For Brian, this may number in the 100s of students, if not more.

 

[magicmarker]

It all starts with having the proper INTENT.

You shouldn't need that many swing thoughts.

I've never seen a great swing produced from an individual who had several (much less 10) swing thoughts swirling around their head.

 

[DCgolf]

I'd like Kevin's take on this from a players perspective. Swing thoughts in a competitive round? I reminder Mo Bembridge telling me he had no(zero) swing thoughts when he shot 64 at Augusta.

 

[Lifter]

I'd like Kevin's take on this from a players perspective. Swing thoughts in a competitive round? I reminder Mo Bembridge telling me he had no(zero) swing thoughts when he shot 64 at Augusta.

Strange but I can't relate to that at all. I feel like I have to try to exaggerate at least something on the course. If I don't, then I'm aimless. It's almost like the swing thought is a crutch or a guide bar.

I've actually had great rounds with three swing thoughts. Typically I only use one or two on the course, though.

 

[ej20]

I doubt anyone has the ability to have no swing thoughts for an extended period of time.There may be times when the swing seems effortless and automatic but those days are usually few and far between and don't last long.Something is bound to break down and the swing thought cycle begins again.

Jack Nicklaus had multiple swing thoughts to draw upon.He said he won just as many tournaments swinging poorly than when he was swinging well.He said it took tremendous concentration when you are not swinging well because playing poorly affects your concentration.I believe this is where Nicklaus excelled.He used tried and trusted swing thoughts to hold his ballstriking together during the days when the swing felt off.His ability to concentrate was probably the best in history.We talk about course management but swing management is just as important and swing thoughts play a role in that.

 

[hp12c]

Swing thought/s for me depends on what shot im intenting to produce, Example a nice high spinni 40yd wedge I really think rt elbow down, left elbow up. I usually pick the ball clean and strike the ground with the midsole I have other but Im gonna patent them first, I gave you one for free.

 

[DCgolf]

Strange but I can't relate to that at all. I feel like I have to try to exaggerate at least something on the course. If I don't, then I'm aimless. It's almost like the swing thought is a crutch or a guide bar.

I've actually had great rounds with three swing thoughts. Typically I only use one or two on the course, though.

what level do you compete on?

 

[Lifter]

what level do you compete on?

I'm a 10-handicap. Don't really compete in tournaments. Typically play a game with my dad or some other folks. Hoping to check out the Texas Golf Association scene but that will have to wait until this summer or fall.......

 

[spktho]

This is one reason why I wish I would have played golf earlier in life.

I grew up living to play baseball and did it so much that even today I can go out, throw a ball and pretty much hit whatever I'm looking at within a reasonable distance from any arm angle without thinking how to throw the ball or when to release it. Pretty much the same for hitting--I can hit a thrown ball (just batting practice nowadays) to any part of the field, ground ball or fly ball by just doing it.

I'm not there yet in golf, but getting closer--slowly.

 

[hp12c]

This is one reason why I wish I would have played golf earlier in life.

I grew up living to play baseball and did it so much that even today I can go out, throw a ball and pretty much hit whatever I'm looking at within a reasonable distance from any arm angle without thinking how to throw the ball or when to release it. Pretty much the same for hitting--I can hit a thrown ball (just batting practice nowadays) to any part of the field, ground ball or fly ball by just doing it.

I'm not there yet in golf, but getting closer.

As u stand next to the golf ball ready to swing. Lets pretend the flag stick is the pitcher and throws the ball at you, yes I know the ball is on the ground. You look away from the ball and look at the flag stick, like you would if it was a pitcher and your the batter in the batters box ready to swing. The ball is on its way you follow it from the flagstick/pitcher and u sense the pitch is in your wheelhouse U Swing away and put the pitch wherever u want.

 

[dschultz6072]

This is so elementary it's unbelievable. Lifter, you're going nuts. And this road you are taking is going to leave you double digits for a long long time. You can't hit and think at the same time. Your cerebrum needs to shut off for the golf swing. It's a MOTOR SKILL. CEREBELLUM. You develop it over time. Are you perfecting your walking technique? Or do you just do it? Go for a walk and start thinking about your walking technique and see how it goes. The golf swing is the same. To be in fix-it mode while you play? ...sheesh. Never had a good round where I felt like I was working on something mid round. I hope you understand what I mean.

 

[ryant91]

i think hit my target. Then mind goes blank and it just happens. I said target. Not the fairway or the flag. Helps i grew up playing a course where you had to actually hit shots. 7400 yards course rating of 76.4 with multi tier greens.Most golfers play courses where a missed fairway or green means very little. Swing thoughts are for practice. Practice does occur on the course. Not when your score counts.

PS i have used 12 sensor amm for years along with flightscope. Quit making excuses and spend the 200-400 hundred bucks to get evaluated. Then either work with the instructor or take the sealed envelope containing the data to someone that can work with you to fix it. All that data is not for the student. The instructor will give you bits and pieces here and there as they feel fit. I personally will not work fullswing with a player without seeing the info. Spent to many years guessing and handing out bandaids. The hard part is finding someone that knows how to put the data into practice for your most efficient improvment. And the flightscope/trackman is a unbelievable tool for teacher and student.

 

[dschultz6072]

i think hit my target. Then mind goes blank and it just happens. I said target.

This. Take dead aim.

 

[Lifter]

Blank Mind?

Hey, dschultz6072 and ryant91, was ej20 just making stuff up when he wrote this?

I doubt anyone has the ability to have no swing thoughts for an extended period of time.There may be times when the swing seems effortless and automatic but those days are usually few and far between and don't last long.Something is bound to break down and the swing thought cycle begins again.

Jack Nicklaus had multiple swing thoughts to draw upon.He said he won just as many tournaments swinging poorly than when he was swinging well.He said it took tremendous concentration when you are not swinging well because playing poorly affects your concentration.I believe this is where Nicklaus excelled.He used tried and trusted swing thoughts to hold his ballstriking together during the days when the swing felt off.His ability to concentrate was probably the best in history.We talk about course management but swing management is just as important and swing thoughts play a role in that.

 

[Lifter]

I'm not buying what dschultz6072 is saying here. Bobby Jones used at least one swing thought on the course, sometimes two. And I'm sure Tiger has at least since he met Butch Harmon and maybe even before.

 

[dschultz6072]

You're right, I'm calling them a bunch of liars.

I'm telling you to play golf. You're comparing your 10 handicap talents to the greatest players ever. They could be hitting the ball all over creation and still give you 10 a side at your home course. I construe thoughts as "something to keep in mind while you play". You've still gotta play shots on the course. I highly doubt they were thinking of their "thoughts" while they were in midswing, or standing over the ball, but what do I know?

Here's what I subscribe to: you think before you swing. you do not think DURING the swing.

 

[dschultz6072]

You seem so on the fence about things. It makes me so frustrated to see someone who obviously has athletic prowess just get deflated by their own thought processes and reception of lackluster instruction.

 

[aaron_lohan]

I struggle to hit good shots when I am thinking about my swing, I struggle just as much to clear my mind when I am on the course, like most people if I hit a few bad shots I start thinking mechanics which isnt a good idea and just makes things worse.

 

[ej20]

David Leadbetter....

"When I was working with Gary Nicklaus about 15 years ago, I asked his dad how many swing thoughts he took to the first tee during his prime. Jack's answer: "I never had more than five." That blew me away. Faldo used four when we worked together, which I thought was amazing. I can still hear Nick's mantra: Sit, coil, pull, release. I heard it a thousand times. For most of us, two pre-swing thoughts and one during the swing is plenty. Any more than that, and you risk getting overloaded."

Read More 10 Rules From David Leadbetter: Golf Digest