How many swing thoughts?

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mgranato

mgranato

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Lifter said:
I have to say, this whole exploration of hip acceleration / deceleration is extremely technical and very difficult to follow. I feel like I would have to invest a HUGE amount of time in order to sufficiently understand the subject. Enough to improve my golf game, at least.

On the other hand, some folks out there are suggesting that if golfers truly want to improve, then they need to be working on upwards of ten body motions, all at the same time.

Now that is an argument that is easy to understand and think about. And I'm inclined to think that it's off the mark. If you're trying to work on 10+ swing changes all at the same time, you probably won't make truly lasting progress with any of them.

Couldn't we devote a little more time to this subject, which is easy to understand and a little less to the other one (difficult to understand)?
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Who exactly is saying 10+ swing thoughts at the same time?

Does this person play golf with any regularity?

Can this person break 90 with any regularity?

Is this person a good player?

Is this person a professional?

Does this person have a swing or a game you’d want to emulate?

If any of these are "NO", then why is this '10+ swing thoughts at one time' a serious discussion? It might be time to look inward and ask just who it is you're getting swinging/playing advice from. Especially on the mental side of the game.

You're much better than that! Literally.
 
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ej20

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Nick Faldo...."When I swing, I’ll have three or four swing thoughts. These thoughts help when the pressure is on."
 
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spktho

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ej20 said:
Nick Faldo...."When I swing, I’ll have three or four swing thoughts. These thoughts help when the pressure is on."
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I wonder what and when exactly these "swing thoughts are". I don't really think they are related to precise mechanics other than maybe something like "high hands at the top" or something like that. Downswing thoughts I think would be disastrous.

On the range is whole different story.
 
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ej20

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spktho said:
I wonder what and when exactly these "swing thoughts are". I don't really think they are related to precise mechanics other than maybe something like "high hands at the top" or something like that. Downswing thoughts I think would be disastrous.

On the range is whole different story.
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Thoughts are still thoughts whether or not they are mechanical.High hands at the top in my opinion is a mechanical thought.Rhythm and tempo would be non mechanical thoughts.
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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I always play better when I have one thing to focus on, it could be seeing the target in my minds eye as I swing, it could be some sort of feel or key. It helps keep me from getting ahead of myself or distracted.
 
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birly-shirly

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Swing thoughts? If you,re Nicklaus or Faldo, then I,m sure you,ve got a catalogue of feels to fall back on. Feels that have proven themselves in terms of great ball striking, or pressure situations. Thoughts based on what you think you ought to be doing, or what you think you,ve seen other players do - that,s maybe a different story.
 
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ej20

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birly-shirly said:
Swing thoughts? If you,re Nicklaus or Faldo, then I,m sure you,ve got a catalogue of feels to fall back on. Feels that have proven themselves in terms of great ball striking, or pressure situations. Thoughts based on what you think you ought to be doing, or what you think you,ve seen other players do - that,s maybe a different story.
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That would be another issue entirely.Of course touring pros would be using different thoughts and keys to the average hack but some people believe all pros and good players think of nothing but the shot at hand when they play.I just gave an example of two pros who has a total of 24 majors between them to prove they are wrong.Some people play their best with swing thoughts.Some can't handle more than one.This is the same for pros and amateurs.
 
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Lifter

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Yes, it could be that the "feels" used by guys like Nicklaus and Faldo are very subtle things. It's OK for their feels to be subtle because they competed at the highest level there is.

But I think the "feels" used by a 10-handicapper should not feel subtle. Instead, they should be trying to fix major swing flaws with uncomfortable exaggerations. If he's truly working on the right fix, then the ballflight will be much better and the exaggeration will quickly become more and more comfortable.

At any rate, I think that if the 10-handicapper works on feels that are subtle, he won't make lasting progress that takes his ballstriking to the next level.

My dad used to get lessons from Chuck Cook. One great thing that Chuck told him was "If what you're doing feels wrong, then it's right because what you were doing before was definitely wrong."

But my dad never embraced the "uncomfortable" approach. Instead, he is always working on teeny tiny little subtle things on the range. Drives me nuts. There are never any changes in his swing that are truly visible and thus his ballflight improves only occasionally and not much.
 
GaryRead

GaryRead

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This is how I would incorporate 10 'thoughts' or lets say 'moves'

You can't have 678910 thoughts simultaneously and play in the moment, but what you can do is to take the 10 swing thoughts and start with one on the practice range, ingrained that feel then incorporate the second, ingrained the feel of the sum of these feels then add a third and fourth and so on and after each move / feel create a combined feel which is the sum if the previously incorporated feels / moves

After ingraining each move and incorporating with the next you will end up with a consolidated feel. That is the one you can take to the course.

Build it up layer by layer on the range. But only take the consolidated feel to the course
 
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Lifter

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Gary,

Below is what I've written before on "layering." Awareness of steep vs. shallowing moves is a must if you're trying to do that.

Lifter said:
Right now, you shouldn't be working on six different swing changes. Instead, you should only be working on one or two particular changes to your swing. If your impacts are too steep, you need one or two shallowing moves. If your impacts are too shallow, you need one or two steepening moves.

If your impacts are neutral (zeroed out?), then to hit the ball longer and straighter you have to add one steepening and one shallowing move. The trick is finding which two particular moves help you the most at this particular moment. And you'll know they help you a lot by observing ballflight, TrackMan, video, etc.

If those two moves result in better ballflight, then you'll incorporate them. Eventually, you will have mastered them so well that you can add another shallowing move and another steepening move that make your ballflight even better! Plus, you'll have made huge strides toward making your swing resemble "optimal." Rinse, wash, repeat.
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Below is the thread that came from. Lot of good stuff in there.
http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17951-john-jacobs-process.html
 
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Lifter

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OK, the gentleman I originally had in mind for this thread contacted me and clarified that to him, there is a big difference between on the golf course and off the golf course. When actually playing 18 holes, he prefers to use zero swing thoughts, one or two at the most.
 
Frans@France

Frans@France

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IMHO it's not about how many but about having the correct swing thoughts that will generate the same movement related to those thoughts over and over again.

I personally can have a great swing thought and practive with it till I think it generates the best shots ever only to find that 2,4,6,x days later (or even only hours later) that that same thought will not reproduce the same swing movement!

I'm still searching for those correct thoughts that allow me to return to a great swing movement, always.....I really don't care if it is only 1 thought or 20 thoughts ;)
 
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spktho

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While playing on the course, how about using your swing thoughts in your practice swing(s) and monitor that you are doing them, then carry that feel to the full swing. How many pros do you see with the wierdest practice swings, then their "real" swing is nothing like the practice swing? This probably falls under the exaggeration of swing changes.

I like the "layering" approach on the range. From there is a monitoring the previous changes then move on to the new change.
 
drewyallop

drewyallop

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Friend of mine says ... go to the range before the game and find out what is working that day. That is your swing thought (and it always is different ... damn golf).
 
magicmarker

magicmarker

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Here is a swing thought you can use on the course.

After you get to your ball and pull out the desired club just imagine yourself hitting the perfect shot from your current lie/position. Close your eyes if you need to but really feel the swing (in your imagination) that would lead to the great shot. Now what did the swing feel like on the shot you visualized. Probably easier to execute than you were thinking it would be when you first got to your ball. (Many times it reminds me that great shots don't require extraordinary effort). Then mimic that feel on your real swing. See what happens.
 
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