Huge block slices, NHA 2.0, and perhaps some diagnosis...

[LamboMGA]

I had been fighting a fatal flaw in my swing, which basically resulted in me reverse rolling my wrists/hands underneath the club at impact and sending a ball off the planet to the right. I finally figured out that this could be the result of me sort of lunging and pulling the club WAY underplane. In my efforts to combat this, I stumbled upon NHA 2.0. I loved it, and my initial efforts with have given me some optimism that I'm not broken beyond repair. Basically, I have 4 questions:

1) Could I be correct in this diagnosis?
2) Could there be any other causes for this ridiculous block slice?
3) Is NHA 2.0 a good path to go down to fix my problem?
4) Is it a terrible idea to add some early wrist hinge to the NHA takeaway? I've been struggling a bit with getting the club to go straight "up the wall" in the backswing, and this seems to help me get the club into a better position.

I could also use any other information you guys may have. Thanks a lot!

 

[magicmarker]

what does your path look like? can you hit a slice that starts left of the target and slices right of it? can you hook it when you want to?

 

[natep]

You might benefit more from NSA if your misses are huge block slices. But if you were in fact underplane reverse rolling your wrists then NHA would also be an upgrade. I have both videos, and they are both very good, lots to learn from both. Gives you a better perspective of what causes what, etc.

 

[fronesis]

Perhaps I am missing something but if you are hitting block slices I would tell you to start with NSA 2.0, not nha.

 

[LamboMGA]

No, I couldn't start one left of target and slice it. Yes, I would very occasionally snipe one left.

 

[LamboMGA]

Perhaps I am missing something but if you are hitting block slices I would tell you to start with NSA 2.0, not nha.

This may sound odd, but it's really not a "slice." If the clubface is 20* open at impact, it's almost irrelevant what the path is doing, it's still going to the right...

 

[fronesis]

This may sound odd, but it's really not a "slice." If the clubface is 20* open at impact, it's almost irrelevant what the path is doing, it's still going to the right...

It is a slice. It is totally a slice.

Please, please, pay Brian the money he deserves for NSA. It will be the best money you have ever spent on golf. Brian will show you that what causes a slice is NOT THE PATH but is exactly that open clubface.

And Brian will show you how to fix the clubface.

Golf is hard and it always will be. But when you learn how to fix the clubface golf gets SO MUCH EASIER.

EDIT: Also, please note that NSA is absolutely not just a pattern for very weak players, for terrible slicers, or for very high handicappers. The information in NSA is invaluable for anyone from a new golfer to a scratch player.

 

[LamboMGA]

I am very keenly aware that if my clubface were not open, the ball would not go 150 yards to the right. I just feel as though there may be an underlying issue here in my getting the club stuck and just having nowhere to go. To be clear, I can also hook it, but the huge right miss is worse. It's as though it's an "oh shit" move, where my brain recognizes that something bad is going to happen and wants me to stop. My iron and wedge play is great.

I had been playing off +1 since college, and this recently started popping up from time to time in my driver swing, ruining my scores. I've always been more of a rotational type swinger, never really had any up and down type movement to my swing.

 

[dbl]

I think underplane and a way open face is a quite possible diagnosis. As to the fix he probably needs to fix the face AND go NHA. He may have developed the open face/rolling due to something like too strong grip for his pattern. Sounds a little like weaken grip, NSA it, then do NHA pattern and he'll be seeing the short grass.

 

[fronesis]

I am very keenly aware that if my clubface were not open, the ball would not go 150 yards to the right. I just feel as though there may be an underlying issue here in my getting the club stuck and just having nowhere to go. To be clear, I can also hook it, but the huge right miss is worse. It's as though it's an "oh shit" move, where my brain recognizes that something bad is going to happen and wants me to stop. My iron and wedge play is great.

I had been playing off +1 since college, and this recently started popping up from time to time in my driver swing, ruining my scores. I've always been more of a rotational type swinger, never really had any up and down type movement to my swing.

I sure hope you didn't take offense, because I didn't mean any. I don't doubt that you are an excellent player. I've never been a + handicap, but I played off of 2 or 3 for quite a while, and I shot a lot of competitive rounds in the 70s (sometimes low 70s), and it wasn't until I learned what's in NSA 2.0 that I feel like I really understand what causes the ball to go where it goes. I'm sure there are much more specific and detailed things that you can work on, but if you are having issues with an open face, I really think you should watch NSA 2.0. There's a lot of GREAT stuff in NHA, but that pattern is designed to de-hook a hooker. So right now it seems to me that you could get something out of NSA 2.0. I've been playing the SD pattern for 3 years no. SD is my pattern and I love it.

But I still think that NSA 2.0 is the best golf instructional video ever made. Period.

 

[LamboMGA]

I sure hope you didn't take offense, because I didn't mean any. I don't doubt that you are an excellent player. I've never been a + handicap, but I played off of 2 or 3 for quite a while, and I shot a lot of competitive rounds in the 70s (sometimes low 70s), and it wasn't until I learned what's in NSA 2.0 that I feel like I really understand what causes the ball to go where it goes. I'm sure there are much more specific and detailed things that you can work on, but if you are having issues with an open face, I really think you should watch NSA 2.0. There's a lot of GREAT stuff in NHA, but that pattern is designed to de-hook a hooker. So right now it seems to me that you could get something out of NSA 2.0. I've been playing the SD pattern for 3 years no. SD is my pattern and I love it.

But I still think that NSA 2.0 is the best golf instructional video ever made. Period.

I apologize if it came off that way, as it certainly wasn't my intent (damn internet). My referencing my index was more to highlight the disparity in my good swings/bad swings rather than to pound my chest. I will definitely take a look at NSA. NHA was great simply because I've never really had any "lift" or "out" in my swing. Part of this miss crept in via an injury. Prior to the injury I was fighting a hook, and once I got hurt I couldn't make whatever compensation I was making to prevent the hook, hence the ridiculous block. My thought is that the same thing that used to cause my hook could in fact be the same issue causing the block-slice, hence my looking into NHA vs NSA. I'm hitting it great with this pattern right now, but I've had stretches like this with my old action as well. I was looking more to REALLY identify what the underlying cause was so I could NEVER do it again.

 

[LamboMGA]

OK, after watching NSA 2.0, which is also pure genius, I realized why NHA 2.0 was working for me. I basically used to play this strong grip flat hold-off cut. By working with NHA, I wasn't able to work underneath the plane, and had to tumble my left arm flying wedge a bit, which is something I've literally never done. The guy who suggested the "starting with NSA and then using NHA" thing before was pretty on point, and I can definitely see how they work together. Employing a little carry and a little tumble, along with a weaker grip and my old takeaway (which with a strong grip is almost a necessity, as you can't pronate a 4 knuckle left hand...), all good things. If anyone feels like I'm missing something, feel free to let me know.

 

[Lifter]

The past couple of days, I've also suffered from a lot of block slices. My swing is also pretty rotary. Here's what I've found works best. Focus on your downswing hand path. Make it more vertical. Imagine that you're throwing a sidearm submarine pitch. Get those hands close to the ground as early as possible. Exaggerate this so aggressively that it feels ridiculous.

 

[LiftOff]

Lambo:

No, you've got it. Around here it's fix the club face first, then the see what happens to the path. Frequently the path will fix itself once you learn how to manipulate the face properly. The strong grip hides the ability to work the face.

 

[LamboMGA]

The past couple of days, I've also suffered from a lot of block slices. My swing is also pretty rotary. Here's what I've found works best. Focus on your downswing hand path. Make it more vertical. Imagine that you're throwing a sidearm submarine pitch. Get those hands close to the ground as early as possible. Exaggerate this so aggressively that it feels ridiculous.

Exactly. That's the feeling I've been working on with this tumbling of the left arm wedge. I'll even exaggerate it with a drill and feel as though the club goes past vertical, with the butt of the club pointing behind my right leg on the downswing. My downswing still feels incredibly forced, but the ball goes straight.

 

[Lifter]

Exactly. That's the feeling I've been working on with this tumbling of the left arm wedge. I'll even exaggerate it with a drill and feel as though the club goes past vertical, with the butt of the club pointing behind my right leg on the downswing. My downswing still feels incredibly forced, but the ball goes straight.

My guess is that this speaks to Lindsey Newman's observation that rotary swing + horizontal hand path doesn't work. Too much hand manipulation is required at impact in order to square the face. If the hand path is more vertical, then much less hand manipulation is necessary. I'm hoping that Project 1.68 will provide more details on things like hand path, tumble, etc. so I can understand them better. Do the NHA / SD videos discuss "tumble" at all? When is Project 1.68 slated for release? December?

 

[LamboMGA]

My guess is that this speaks to Lindsey Newman's observation that rotary swing + horizontal hand path doesn't work. Too much hand manipulation is required at impact in order to square the face. If the hand path is more vertical, then much less hand manipulation is necessary. I'm hoping that Project 1.68 will provide more details on things like hand path, tumble, etc. so I can understand them better. Do the NHA / SD videos discuss "tumble" at all? When is Project 1.68 slated for release? December?

I don't think NHA talked about tumble at all. I drew that from one of Brian's free youtube videos talking about being underplane and the flying wedge tumble. On another site, a fine gentleman who had been having similar issues pointed me in the right direction (both that video and this forum) and it's made all of the difference in the world. First tournament round/qualifier in a while tomorrow, I'll report back with the results. I've had 3 range sessions since discovering NHA and the tumble video, one since discovering NSA and a 4 hole practice session, as well as about 10 hours of short game work. Not a lot of time to get used to a massive swing change, but as long as I have a mediocre day off the tee my putter should keep me inside the number. Thanks all for the help, I do appreciate it.

 

[fronesis]

OK, after watching NSA 2.0, which is also pure genius, I realized why NHA 2.0 was working for me. I basically used to play this strong grip flat hold-off cut. By working with NHA, I wasn't able to work underneath the plane, and had to tumble my left arm flying wedge a bit, which is something I've literally never done. The guy who suggested the "starting with NSA and then using NHA" thing before was pretty on point, and I can definitely see how they work together. Employing a little carry and a little tumble, along with a weaker grip and my old takeaway (which with a strong grip is almost a necessity, as you can't pronate a 4 knuckle left hand...), all good things. If anyone feels like I'm missing something, feel free to let me know.

Excellent!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The past couple of days, I've also suffered from a lot of block slices. My swing is also pretty rotary. Here's what I've found works best. Focus on your downswing hand path. Make it more vertical. Imagine that you're throwing a sidearm submarine pitch. Get those hands close to the ground as early as possible. Exaggerate this so aggressively that it feels ridiculous.

Sounds like you don't get your arms/hands high enough in the backswing

 

[Lifter]

Sounds like you don't get your arms/hands high enough in the backswing

Apologies for threadjacking, but I'm not sure Jim's comment above is correct. Below are a couple recent swings. Left arm at the top looks pretty normal to me. My best guess is that I'm humping the goat a little too much, sometimes resulting in underplane (and horizontal hand path) problems.

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9j1qAgn670c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hnmHAYu9TyU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>