I did Trackman today

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dsmith2296

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I did Trackman today with Manzella Academy Instructor Chris Hamburger at The Cardinal Club, in Simpsonville, Kentucky, just outside of Louisville.

Chris will email me results tonight. ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE insight but you need a knowledgable pro to interpret results. Luckily, I had one.

The swinging left stuff now makes more sense. The downwardness effect on club path makes more sense. Trying to assimilate information tonight.

Man I cannot believe how my attempted corrections were making the problem worse. I thought my hooks could be cured by swinging more in to out.

Once I got on Trackman I realized, I am really good at swinging 5-6 or more degrees in to out—can to it at will without thought. When I tried to correct my hook by swinging more in to out, e.g. 7-9 degrees, I would close the clubface more and hook it worse. However, if I was downward enough, I might counteract the closed clubface and hit one straighter with an 8 degree in to out path.

Also, many of you may know from my recent history that I have been tinkering around with two patterns- one being a more controlled one with an interlocking grip and flatter left wrist and one being a bent left wrist/strong left grip swing with more trigger delay.

Well my controlled pattern was consistently in to out 2-4 degrees with a slightly closed clubface--hence more control-- but my six iron was carrying 155-ish.

My more trigger delayed pattern produced the more drastic in to out path of 5-9 degrees and my face angle was all over the place. But my carry with a six iron was now near 170 and had more roll out.

I told Chris I did not want to give up on the more trigger delay pattern. So he told me to swing more left so the ball will not hook so much.

He was right.
 
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swingobsessed

New
dsmith2296 said:
I did Trackman today with Manzella Academy Instructor Chris Hamburger at The Cardinal Club, in Simpsonville, Kentucky, just outside of Louisville.

Chris will email me results tonight. ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE insight but you need a knowledgable pro to interpret results. Luckily, I had one.

The swinging left stuff now makes more sense. The downwardness effect on club path makes more sense. Trying to assimilate information tonight.

Man I cannot believe how my attempted corrections were making the problem worse. I thought my hooks could be cured by swinging more in to out.

Once I got on Trackman I realized, I am really good at swinging 5-6 or more degrees in to out—can to it at will without thought. When I tried to correct my hook by swinging more in to out, e.g. 7-9 degrees, I would close the clubface more and hook it worse. However, if I was downward enough, I might counteract the closed clubface and hit one straighter with an 8 degree in to out path.

Also, many of you may know from my recent history that I have been tinkering around with two patterns- one being a more controlled one with an interlocking grip and flatter left wrist and one being a bent left wrist/strong left grip swing with more trigger delay.

Well my controlled pattern was consistently in to out 2-4 degrees with a slightly closed clubface--hence more control-- but my six iron was carrying 155-ish.

My more trigger delayed pattern produced the more drastic in to out path of 5-9 degrees and my face angle was all over the place. But my carry with a six iron was now near 170 and had more roll out.

I told Chris I did not want to give up on the more trigger delay pattern. So he told me to swing more left so the ball will not hook so much.

He was right.
Click to expand...

How did you swing more left???
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
dsmith2296 said:
Just tried to gradually reduce my in to out until I got to zero. Funny thing is, when I got more toward zero, I maintained #4 accumulator better.
Click to expand...

That's because you have to rotate the body open to move the plane line more left, which moves the path as well, and since the ball is in the same place, the left arm is usually more across the chest.
 
D

dsmith2296

New
Ok, some results of good swings:

6 - iron with my controlled pattern (flattER left wrist, MORE neutral grip):

1. Clubhead speed = 86.5
2. Ball speed = 116.1
3. Attack angle = -0.8
4. Club Path = 3.3
5. Vert swing plane = 62.7
6. Horiz swing plane = 2.9
7. Dyn Loft = 18.3
8. Face angle = 2.0
9. Smash factor = 1.34
10. Vert. angle = 12.7
11. Horiz angle = 2.4
12. Spin rate = 6475
13. Spin axis = -3.4
14. Max Height = 23.0
15. Carry = 156.9
16. Side = 0.4R
17. Length = 164.6
18. Side yards = 0.1 R

6- iron with my more trigger delayed pattern (bent left wrist, strong left hand)

1. Clubhead speed = 91.8
2. Ball speed = 124.9
3. Attack angle = -4.7
4. Club Path = 5.4
5. Vert swing plane = 54.2
6. Horiz swing plane = 2.0
7. Dyn Loft = 18.3
8. Face angle = 2.4
9. Smash factor = 1.36
10. Vert. angle = 12.7
11. Horiz angle = 3.1
12. Spin rate = 6943
13. Spin axis = -2.0
14. Max Height = 28.4
15. Carry = 166.9
16. Side = 2.7R
17. Length = 172.3
18. Side yards = 2.5 R

So you're thinking, to heck with the controlled pattern, go with more compression. Now here two example of my MISSES:

6 - iron with my controlled pattern

1. Clubhead speed = 87.1
2. Ball speed = 114.0
3. Attack angle = -1.1
4. Club Path = 3.9
5. Vert swing plane = 57.6
6. Horiz swing plane = 3.2
7. Dyn Loft = 19.8
8. Face angle = 6.5
9. Smash factor = 1.31
10. Vert. angle = 13.6
11. Horiz angle = 5.7
12. Spin rate = 7088
13. Spin axis = 0.1
14. Max Height = 23.4
15. Carry = 153.1
16. Side = 16.2R
17. Length = 159.9
18. Side yards = 17.0 R

6- iron with my more trigger delayed pattern

1. Clubhead speed = 87.3
2. Ball speed = 127.1
3. Attack angle = -3.4
4. Club Path = 5.7
5. Vert swing plane = 63.1
6. Horiz swing plane = 3.9
7. Dyn Loft = 11.3
8. Face angle = -3.6
9. Smash factor = 1.46
10. Vert. angle = 7.2
11. Horiz angle = -0.9
12. Spin rate = 6194
13. Spin axis = -17.9
14. Max Height = 15.5
15. Carry = 165.4
16. Side = 29.3L
17. Length = 178.5
18. Side yards = 34.1 L

Can anybody spy the reason for the worse miss with the latter pattern?
 
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Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

New
Next year I plan on getting some Trackman time that I will have to pay for. I think I have a pretty good grasp on the numbers and what they mean/result. But I was hoping I could have my interpretation of these results and see if I'm right or headed in the right direction before I get on Trackman by myself and wind up applying the wrong ideas/concepts.


dsmith2296 said:
Ok, some results of good swings:

6 - iron with my controlled pattern (flattER left wrist, MORE neutral grip):

1. Clubhead speed = 86.5
2. Ball speed = 116.1
3. Attack angle = -0.8
4. Club Path = 3.3
5. Vert swing plane = 62.7
6. Horiz swing plane = 2.9
7. Dyn Loft = 18.3
8. Face angle = 2.0
9. Smash factor = 1.34
10. Vert. angle = 12.7
11. Horiz angle = 2.4
12. Spin rate = 6475
13. Spin axis = -3.4
14. Max Height = 23.0
15. Carry = 156.9
16. Side = 0.4R
17. Length = 164.6
18. Side yards = 0.1 R
Click to expand...

Very shallow angle of attack (only -0.8* with a 6-iron). That means if the clubface was square at impact -- which it's not -- he would have to swing left by -0.4* (which is practically square to the target) to hit it dead straight. Instead, his face angle is pointing 2.0* to the right here. In order to hit it straight he needs to his path to be about 2.0* in-to-out which would create a slight straight push. Instead, the path is 3.3* in-to-out which would likely start the ball out the right a bit and then draw it slightly back to the target. A bit of a sweepy, swinging out to the right pattern here. IMO, I've never seen your swing, but from the numbers I would assume you're flipping here.


6- iron with my more trigger delayed pattern (bent left wrist, strong left hand)

1. Clubhead speed = 91.8
2. Ball speed = 124.9
3. Attack angle = -4.7
4. Club Path = 5.4
5. Vert swing plane = 54.2
6. Horiz swing plane = 2.0
7. Dyn Loft = 18.3
8. Face angle = 2.4
9. Smash factor = 1.36
10. Vert. angle = 12.7
11. Horiz angle = 3.1
12. Spin rate = 6943
13. Spin axis = -2.0
14. Max Height = 28.4
15. Carry = 166.9
16. Side = 2.7R
17. Length = 172.3
18. Side yards = 2.5 R
Click to expand...

A much steeper AoA (-4.7*) that should probably generate a much more driving, boring flight. IF the face angle was square to the target, then he would need to swing left by -2.35* to hit a straight ball. But the face angle is pointing 2.4* out to the right of the target. The club path is 5.4* in-to-out. This produced a bigger draw. However, you increased your ball speed by roughly 7.6% and hit a much more powerful shot.

I'm still a little confused on the club path vs. horizontal plane and the side yards deal.



3JACK
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

New
Richie3Jack said:
Next year I plan on getting some Trackman time that I will have to pay for. I think I have a pretty good grasp on the numbers and what they mean/result. But I was hoping I could have my interpretation of these results and see if I'm right or headed in the right direction before I get on Trackman by myself and wind up applying the wrong ideas/concepts.




Very shallow angle of attack (only -0.8* with a 6-iron). That means if the clubface was square at impact -- which it's not -- he would have to swing left by -0.4* (which is practically square to the target) to hit it dead straight. Instead, his face angle is pointing 2.0* to the right here. In order to hit it straight he needs to his path to be about 2.0* in-to-out which would create a slight straight push. Instead, the path is 3.3* in-to-out which would likely start the ball out the right a bit and then draw it slightly back to the target. A bit of a sweepy, swinging out to the right pattern here. IMO, I've never seen your swing, but from the numbers I would assume you're flipping here.




A much steeper AoA (-4.7*) that should probably generate a much more driving, boring flight. IF the face angle was square to the target, then he would need to swing left by -2.35* to hit a straight ball. But the face angle is pointing 2.4* out to the right of the target. The club path is 5.4* in-to-out. This produced a bigger draw. However, you increased your ball speed by roughly 7.6% and hit a much more powerful shot.

I'm still a little confused on the club path vs. horizontal plane and the side yards deal.



3JACK
Click to expand...

To help with confusion(i think).

Club path is horizontal plane including angle of attack. Path is to the right plus downward AoA = club path more to the right. Club face angle is closed to clubpath so side yards to the right just a little. Push Draw just right of target.
 
D

dannyc

New
dsmith2296 said:
1. Clubhead speed = 87.3
2. Ball speed = 127.1
3. Attack angle = -3.4
4. Club Path = 5.7
5. Vert swing plane = 63.1
6. Horiz swing plane = 3.9
7. Dyn Loft = 11.3
8. Face angle = -3.6
9. Smash factor = 1.46
10. Vert. angle = 7.2
11. Horiz angle = -0.9
12. Spin rate = 6194
13. Spin axis = -17.9
14. Max Height = 15.5
15. Carry = 165.4
16. Side = 29.3L
17. Length = 178.5
18. Side yards = 34.1 L

Can anybody spy the reason for the worse miss with the latter pattern?
Click to expand...

looks like the second pattern has you swinging on average 1.5 to 2 degrees more right. add a closed face (stronger grip?), and you got a big ole hook
 
D

dsmith2296

New
dannyc said:
looks like the second pattern has you swinging on average 1.5 to 2 degrees more right. add a closed face (stronger grip?), and you got a big ole hook
Click to expand...

YES!

I want to salvage this pattern though. Clearly better compression. But I have much trouble with the closed clubface. But if I weaken my grip, I lose my trigger delay because I like to have my left thumb and right forefinger behind the shaft (shut face guy instead of a fan open guy) I think the answer my lie in the #4 accumulator. Make sense to anyone?
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

New
I think the 2nd pattern is the pattern you need to keep and work on. Far better compression and increasing your ball speed by about 8% with a 6-iron is a dramatic improvement IMO. You just started working with this pattern, so you just need to work on it, get used to it, and you'll get the accuracy down...probably even quicker than you think. Even your poor shots with the 2nd pattern have an angle of attack that is more what an AoA should be for a 6-iron.

I would say out of all of the good lessons I have ever received I usually come away hitting the ball longer than I do accurately and consistently. So it just takes me getting on the range and ironing things out to get the accuracy and consistency to go with it. In the end, I think it's a no-brainer of what pattern I would work on and stick with.




3JACK
 
D

dannyc

New
perhaps keeping the stronger grip and adding some tumble, yellow brick road, or other nha elements might do the trick...
 
D

dsmith2296

New
THE ANATOMY OF A DUCK HOOK

-DRIVER:

1. Clubhead speed = 109.0
2. Ball speed = 161.3
3. Attack angle = 1.6
4. Club Path = 2.3
5. Vert swing plane = 36.2
6. Horiz swing plane = 4.6
7. Dyn Loft = 9.1
8. Face angle = -2.5
9. Smash factor = 1.48
10. Vert. angle = 7.5
11. Horiz angle = -1.5
12. Spin rate = 3070
13. Spin axis = -25.5
14. Max Height = 19.4
15. Carry = 252.7
16. Side = 45.7L
17. Length = 282.2
18. Side yards = 53.9 L
 
vjsinger

vjsinger

New
dsmith2296 said:
THE ANATOMY OF A DUCK HOOK

-DRIVER:

1. Clubhead speed = 109.0
2. Ball speed = 161.3
3. Attack angle = 1.6
4. Club Path = 2.3
5. Vert swing plane = 36.2
6. Horiz swing plane = 4.6
7. Dyn Loft = 9.1
8. Face angle = -2.5
9. Smash factor = 1.48
10. Vert. angle = 7.5
11. Horiz angle = -1.5
12. Spin rate = 3070
13. Spin axis = -25.5
14. Max Height = 19.4
15. Carry = 252.7
16. Side = 45.7L
17. Length = 282.2
18. Side yards = 53.9 L
Click to expand...

Stick with the #4 feel.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
dsmith2296 said:
THE ANATOMY OF A DUCK HOOK

-DRIVER:

1. Clubhead speed = 109.0
2. Ball speed = 161.3
3. Attack angle = 1.6
4. Club Path = 2.3
5. Vert swing plane = 36.2
6. Horiz swing plane = 4.6
7. Dyn Loft = 9.1
8. Face angle = -2.5
9. Smash factor = 1.48
10. Vert. angle = 7.5
11. Horiz angle = -1.5
12. Spin rate = 3070
13. Spin axis = -25.5
14. Max Height = 19.4
15. Carry = 252.7
16. Side = 45.7L
17. Length = 282.2
18. Side yards = 53.9 L
Click to expand...

Do you hit these low on the heel?
 
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