I just watched some of Tiger's swings today and.......

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otto6457

otto6457

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I am just dumbfounded.

Now before anyone thinks I'm going to hate on Tiger just cool your jets. I'm pretty neutral on Tiger but I certainly don't wish him to fail. I believe golf is more interesting when there is a guy that raises the bar...and Tiger has been the guy for a LONG time.

So...on with the rambling.

My question revolves around just how BAD his swing looked today. The standing straight up on shots is something a 20 handicap might do. But I've seen 20 handicappers that look better swinging a club.

How does a guy that's been hitting balls since he was in diapers, get this bad? Is this a case of his body just rebelling against a swing he's not comfortable with? Or is his brain just so bound up in swing thoughts that he has no idea what is fixing to happen? He mentioned in his interview that his first few holes he was thinking swing positions (he was -3 after 4 holes or something like that) then said he tried to just "let it go". Going 10 over from there.

What? 3 under with a brain full of swing positions....and 10 over "letting it go". This sounds exactly backwards. This sounds like Tiger can ONLY play now if he is playing "golf swing" rather than golf. Isn't this the worst possible way to play golf? To be playing "golf swing" on every shot instead of reacting to a target and just playing golf?

I saw some goat humping that is as bad anything I've ever seen with my golf buddies....and a couple of my buddies are AWFUL. Tiger's legs were so straight at impact it looked like he might fall over.

I am honestly stunned by what I saw. How does this happen so fast to a guy that is this talented?
 
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Mike O

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Simple answer - happens when you implement poor ideas.

Now, that could sound like a slam on Tiger or slam on Foley, or "my ideas are better compared to theirs, they don't know what they are doing", however, it really just answers your question. It's one of the reasons that many teachers would only "tweak" any particular pro - realizing with "our" limited understanding of the golf movement - you wouldn't want to tear down and rebuild a player who has already proven that they can win on the big stage.

I agree that Tiger looks really "ugly" during portions of his swing - shocking.
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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Mike O said:
Simple answer - happens when you implement poor ideas.

Now, that could sound like a slam on Tiger or slam on Foley, or "my ideas are better compared to theirs, they don't know what they are doing", however, it really just answers your question. It's one of the reasons that many teachers would only "tweak" any particular pro - realizing with "our" limited understanding of the golf movement - you wouldn't want to tear down and rebuild a player who has already proven that they can win on the big stage.

I agree that Tiger looks really "ugly" during portions of his swing - shocking.
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Sensible answer.
 
dschultz6072

dschultz6072

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Is this

really just advocating standing up through impact? I don't mean to show Foley's method but I think it serves the purpose of inviting discussion. If it's not OK, delete this.
 
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jbrunk

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His 'save it' move looks so obvious. He almost looks like me on some of those, 'OMG swing it hard left after impact or that baby's goin way right' swings.

My thread was not to bash TW, but to explain my disbelief that he could ever be/look this bad.
 
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fronesis

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I'm not convinced that what Foley is trying to each him is wrong. I think Foley has actually improved his backswing, which is way less laid off.

The problem, in my opinion, boils down to this:
1. Foley is trying to teach Tiger a pattern that swings MUCH MORE LEFFT.
2. But when it comes down to it, Tiger instinctively feels more comfortable swinging more RIGHT.
3. So Tiger is setting up and taking it back for the swing left pattern and then trying to swing more right, and....UGH.

I watched every shot Tiger hit yesterday on the live streaming. The pattern was working well and he was sticking to it through the first few holes. But the first driver he hit WAY right. The next time he hit driver was the first swing where he "reverted" and he hit this long soft draw up the right side, blasting it over the bunker to wedge range, where he made his birdie. But after that, he was trying to hit more from the inside, swing more left. And it was a nightmare. The ball in the water on the long par 3 never had a chance as Tiger was lined up left and then swung out into the water...From there it just got uglier than I've ever seen it.

Well, until Rory tried to ruin his own golf career making one of the stupidest decisions I've ever seen (I'm a HUGE Rory fan, but I could not believe he tried to hit that ball).
 
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Lindsey Newman

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Tiger has become a golf swing junky and may never make it back. In my opinion, he has gotten further and further away from the player he was since the day of the first change (Harmon). He obviously has a type A, highly addictive personality who is addicted to booty, vanity and "the golf swing". He will only make it back when he takes personal responsibility for his move. He may be and I think is, too far into pandoras box (a, not that box).
 
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otto6457

otto6457

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Lindsey Newman said:
Tiger has become a golf swing junky and may never make it back. In my opinion, he has gotten further and further away from the player he was since the day of the first change (Harmon). He obviously has a type A, highly addictive personality who is addicted to booty, vanity and "the golf swing". He will only make it back when he takes personal responsibility for his move. He may be and I think is, too far into pandoras box (a, not that box).
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I can't shake this feeling either. It's as if he doesn't trust himself at all when it comes to a golf swing. IIRC back when Tiger first came out on Tour he was talking about "owning" his swing like Hogan did. What ever happened to THAT Tiger? How can you "own" anything that you can't fix on your own? An accurate analogy would be if Tiger was a plumber, but had to hire a plumber every time he had a leaky faucet.

I can see Tiger firing Foley in the near future (or Foley jumping ship when he feels a firing coming) if he has another round or two like he had at the Bridgestone and now at the PGA.

Also, do I understand correctly that if Tiger doesn't finish at least Top 25 at the PGA, he's out of the Fed-Ex cup? Which would mean his season is effectively over after only 3 tournaments?
 
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dbl

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I think you nailed the analysis, Fronesis. In the TW highlight, I think on the 6th, he hit a shot from the right fairway bunker and hooked it into the water - I think he did as you said and tried to save it with his hands.
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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Every so often I remember the old Tiger. There are some great youtube videos with swings from his U.S. Am. wins. He was so much fun to watch because he was SO good and SO fearless and just looked all the time like he was playing golf instead of golf swing. Hopefully he will "get it" so he can get back to "playing golf" again. I really hope so.
 
magicmarker

magicmarker

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I think he honestly believes there is such a thing as a perfect swing.
Pick a shot and ball flight and then apply the swing that accomplishes it. He MUST know how to work the ball, no?
I totally agree with Bubba Watson's analysis. Just go play golf.
What surprises me even more is that when Haney quit on him he bolted for another teacher shockingly fast. Why not take a break from having other people tell you how they think you would swing best. Go figure it out yourself. Even if you realize you can't on your own, at least you would have given yourself the same chance you gave Haney and Foley.
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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What's most shocking is how Tiger turned over the keys to his golf swing to inexperience. As I predicted back in the Spring....this relationship will be short-lived.
 
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DCgolf

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Lindsey Newman said:
Tiger has become a golf swing junky and may never make it back. In my opinion, he has gotten further and further away from the player he was since the day of the first change (Harmon). He obviously has a type A, highly addictive personality who is addicted to booty, vanity and "the golf swing". He will only make it back when he takes personal responsibility for his move. He may be and I think is, too far into pandoras box (a, not that box).
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Lindsey I have to agree with you. I never thought it before this weekend, maybe I was in denial, but it has gone so far down the well, that even the greatest player I've ever seen might not be able to get out of this mess. I've been around the game for 50 years, caught the tail end of Hogan, all of Jack, and now Tiger. The golf we were witness to for 10/12 years of his career is the BEST I've ever seen. And to see this, wow. Reminds me of Ali fighting Larry Holmes. He has been so incredible that I'll never say "never" but nothing short of being born again will bring his genius back!
 
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savydan

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Raise your hand if you thought Tiger at one point knew the secrets to the swing?

Kevin, Lindsey, out of the guys with tour cards, who really knows what they're doing?

I mean, who could really teach if they had to.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
If you read his book you knew either he didnt know much technically or he was witholding information. Alot of guys know their own swing for certain. Ill bet Vijay Singh knows a lot. Nick Price the same. Im not sure if anyone out there could be a goof fixer who could teach anything beyond what THEY do. But thats why they play and others teach.
 
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Lindsey Newman

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savydan said:
Raise your hand if you thought Tiger at one point knew the secrets to the swing?

Kevin, Lindsey, out of the guys with tour cards, who really knows what they're doing?

I mean, who could really teach if they had to.
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That's a tougher question than I thought it would be. Even though I doubt he would be perfect, as if anyone is, maybe Elkington. I say that because he has spent time with some knowledgable folks and some great older players who knew quite a bit.
 
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DCgolf

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Players know their swings, don't care or have to care about anyone else's. Teachers are looking for the principles in golf that are universally applicable to fixing swing faults. I asked Vijay once what causes the vast majority of golfers to slice. He said cause they don't get through the ball! Clueless.
 
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Billy McKinney

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TW is what I'd call Consciously Competent. It is evidenced by his NEVER once in a major coming from behind with a lights out round..while being a great front-runner. He's been playing Golf Swing since he started with John Anselmo back in jr. golf. He just happened to be Tiger "mutha%#$%ing" Woods steering it around...Golf's first Super-Athlete to play the game.
If he ever 'owned' the swing, he'd have at least once shot 61 on Sunday to run the leader down. No no..TW has been a position golfer since day 1. JMHO.
 
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