If you could only see the club...

[mgranato]

...would it help or hurt in learning about how you move it?

I was tooling around with some new software trying to learn some basic moves which lead to some doodling on some old swing footage. So far I've just isolated the club and coupling point during the backswing (downswing to follow), and was wondering if seeing the swing as just the movement of the club had any benefit or merit? Any thoughts?

Backswing:

Downswing:

Full swing:

 

[OLIVER1]

... Any thoughts?

You've atrophied a bit since the shoulder surgery...

Seriously, I think it's a tidy idea. Very much looking forward to the downswing
How do you do that?

 

[art]

...would it help or hurt in learning about how you move it?

I was tooling around with some new software trying to learn some basic moves which lead to some doodling on some old swing footage. So far I've just isolated the club and coupling point during the backswing (downswing to follow), and was wondering if seeing the swing as just the movement of the club had any benefit or merit? Any thoughts?

Backswing:

Dear mgranato,

Wow, please see iif you could provide an image every 'frame' of the camera, and for instance isolate the club/head, then in another box, isolate the left arm, finally, a third box with them together.

I have been using the Titlest 3d, AMM Software to "see" the incremental movement of these parts, and the scientific 'insights' have been very revealing.

Finally, could ALL of us be able to do what you do ??

Sincerely,
art

 

[mgranato]

The rest of the "swing" was added to the original post.

Art, these were stills captured from an iPhone video... these were all the frames. I also zoomed in to get some individual pixel work done, there just isn't enough original detail footage to get that much "info" from this swing.

If you have a Mac and $14.99. The images were done on Pixelmator which is an photo editing app from the Mac app store.

 

[mgranato]

You've atrophied a bit since the shoulder surgery...

Seriously, I think it's a tidy idea. Very much looking forward to the downswing
How do you do that?

Ha... this is my ideal golf swing... me not involved.

 

[art]

The rest of the "swing" was added to the original post.

Art, these were stills captured from an iPhone video... these were all the frames. I also zoomed in to get some individual pixel work done, there just isn't enough original detail footage to get that much "info" from this swing.

If you have a Mac and $14.99. The images were done on Pixelmator which is an photo editing app from the Mac app store.

Dear mgranato,

Do you have an I-Pad available to use as the camera in this process??

I 'counted' the images from the back swing and down swing and concluded that the downswing omitted about half of the still images by some internal software 'compression' process to probably save space.

Working with a local 'pro' he has been able to display ALL the frames of a swing on his I-Pad, and I have used these data to show the approximate 3:1 ratio of the back swing to down swing time. The real purpose, admittedly, is to do this for multiple swings and show the consistency, or inconsistency of both the TEMPO (total time) and RHYTHM (variations in back swing and down swing times).

IT WOULD BE OF GREAT VALUE FOR THE TEACHER AND STUDENT TO BE ABLE TO SEE THESE ACTIONS AND THE VARIATIONS IN TIMING.

Appreciatively,
art

 

[bryan@nobackswing.com]

this is great stuff, i'd be curious if you can see how the club movement looks different on a good vs. bad shot.

by this i mean compare two shots side by side and see how similar the club and clubface look at different points in the swing. you could even put some alignment markings on the bottom of the club to help more accurately pinpoint clubface position.

 

[Dariusz J.]

...would it help or hurt in learning about how you move it?

I was tooling around with some new software trying to learn some basic moves which lead to some doodling on some old swing footage. So far I've just isolated the club and coupling point during the backswing (downswing to follow), and was wondering if seeing the swing as just the movement of the club had any benefit or merit? Any thoughts?

Backswing:

Downswing:

Full swing:

You might have earned quite a few bucks if you did it 15 years before. Haney would have used it to illustrate his congruent angles theory.

Cheers

 

[Brian Manzella]

You might have earned quite a few bucks if you did it 15 years before. Haney would have used it to illustrate his congruent angles theory.

Cheers

Really bad parallax.

 

[Brian Manzella]

...would it help or hurt in learning about how you move it?

I was tooling around with some new software trying to learn some basic moves which lead to some doodling on some old swing footage. So far I've just isolated the club and coupling point during the backswing (downswing to follow), and was wondering if seeing the swing as just the movement of the club had any benefit or merit? Any thoughts?

Backswing:

Downswing:

Full swing:

Great stuff.

 

[bluebird]

There appears to be a huge rate of closure in the bottom right vid. Was that manufactured as a optimum ideal or as a realtime reality? On the other planet it will be reported as a obvious heel hit.

 

[mgranato]

There appears to be a huge rate of closure in the bottom right vid. Was that manufactured as a optimum ideal or as a realtime reality? On the other planet it will be reported as a obvious heel hit.

For good or bad, it's all reality.

As you can clearly see from these two impact frames, I was putting the face on the ball, then manipulating the face for the shot.

I love a good gear effect discussion, but I'm guessing the camera got an image about 12" before impact and about 12" after impact. Based on that and the clarity (or lack of) I have no idea where on the face this one was hit.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Really bad parallax.

That's why i put .

Haney made a very simple mistake of not examining his theory in 3D.

Cheers

 

[birly-shirly]

Very neat work - I like it.

I second Dariusz' first comment - that it looks WAY more planar than I expected.

Also, at last parallel before impact - clubface looks almost square to the arc. Almost as if you've been working on a slow rate of closure into impact. But then the 2 shots either side of impact look to have quite a bit of clubhead rotation! So maybe there's quite a bit of distortion at work, or I'm misreading the last-parallel position.

Have you done the caddy-view too?

 

[Bigwill]

Don't know if you could effectively pull it off, but it would be cool to see a research study where golfers are asked to imitate club movements or body movements. Would there be a difference in improvement? Would imitating the club lead to better body movements? It would be interesting, since golf instruction to this point it time has been so heavily focused on body movements...

 

[mgranato]

Very neat work - I like it.

I second Dariusz' first comment - that it looks WAY more planar than I expected.

Also, at last parallel before impact - clubface looks almost square to the arc. Almost as if you've been working on a slow rate of closure into impact. But then the 2 shots either side of impact look to have quite a bit of clubhead rotation! So maybe there's quite a bit of distortion at work, or I'm misreading the last-parallel position.

Have you done the caddy-view too?

I was quite surprised to see the pics animated because I don't feel the club moving like that at all. Would never have pic that series out of a line up.

RoC (either slowing it or raising it) is something I've never worked on... just is what it is. Last parallel does appear to have a more closed look than "toe up", but by that time I'm just getting the feeling from when the club was much higher towards the transition. I'm not aware of any positioning happening that deep into the downswing.

I don't think I have any footage clear enough for the caddy view.

 

[art]

Don't know if you could effectively pull it off, but it would be cool to see a research study where golfers are asked to imitate club movements or body movements. Would there be a difference in improvement? Would imitating the club lead to better body movements? It would be interesting, since golf instruction to this point it time has been so heavily focused on body movements...

Dear Bigwill,

That 's why I am so excited and passionate about BBKIB. There ALREADY are DIRECT comparisons of 10-20 swings on FlightScope of a golfers original swing followed by 10-20 swings using BBKIB after in some cases, less than 15 minutes of hopefully clear instruction. The comparisons are then 'analyzed (and the videos compared to see the degree of BBKIB used), with the results averaging 10% carry improvements, and up to 50% dispersion reductions. In the world of 'statistics, a major difference in operating characteristics.

I don't believe, or expect any 'release related' comparisons to provide as discernibly different basic data OR video, not saying or making them less desirable, just trying to communicate to YOU a very golf-swing astute audience that IMO, lower body 'dynamic stability' has a significantly greater positive impact on the DESIRED OUTCOME of most golfers FROM JUST A DISTANCE AND ACCURACY STANDPOINT.

In terms of TrackMan (and to a lesser extent FlightScope) data, the 'details of just HOW the club head angular path, and club head to ball impact occurred, can deterministically show, mathematically, HOW the ball moved thru the atmosphere to GET TO THE IMPACT POINT. Of course, in the world of especially professional golfers, the SHAPE of the shot versus the 'expected' shape in both magnitude and direction is of GREAT IMPORTANCE, for which BBKIB, can only play the role of providing a MORE STABLE BASE for these ball compression and shape-related shots to be accomplished. So, at this time, IMO, when combined with BBKIB, will significantly REDUCE the angular, angular rate, and impact ACCURACY dispersions, and may NOT have any effect on distance, but that remains to be tested and verified.

And in summary, that is ALL I have been trying to communicate, that BBKIB and your release-related efforts CAN and should be treated together at this time of all of us seeking AND COMMUNICATING 'golf truth' and the best way to expeditiously find it, for the benefit of ALL golfers, INCLUDING BETTER AND CONSISTENT DEFINITIONS, the topic of another active but important string.

Very sincerely,
art

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Art,

I have been cautiously reading your posted information from day one. I am extremely interested in your information, but find it confusing that you do not present any visual examples of BBKIB. Could you possibly have Brian do a short video?

Thanks,

Lindsey

 

[Brian Manzella]

Don't know if you could effectively pull it off, but it would be cool to see a research study where golfers are asked to imitate club movements or body movements. Would there be a difference in improvement? Would imitating the club lead to better body movements? It would be interesting, since golf instruction to this point it time has been so heavily focused on body movements...

I've been doing a 30-year study....

Art,

I have been cautiously reading your posted information from day one. I am extremely interested in your information, but find it confusing that you do not present any visual examples of BBKIB. Could you possibly have Brian do a short video?

I was using my version on it yesterday with Glen Cole.

I am on the ground behind him, I help him turn his belly and his lower mid back, I help keep it there as he starts his downswing, then I let it go.

For the right golfer, it helps almost every time.

 

[mgranato]

Thorax in very poor man's 3-D.

Anyone know the signs of cabin fever?