if you think manzella is....

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quote:Originally posted by benhogan54

I have a problem with EdZ continuousyly saying "show something new...show something original" because I haven't heard a lot of the stuff Brian has said or the drills he recommends. Has Leadbetter ever invented something new? HELL NO. He steals from everyone and gives no credit. Does anyone blast him? No. Magazines, books, and TGC shows constantly give him credit as the best teacher ever. Has Butch Harmon invented something new? No. He has the best player in the world which would still be there if he didn't see Butch. He doesn't get blasted either. None of these "top teachers" have invented anything new and they haven't really helped many people either. I have seen very few people who have developed new concepts and drills. I will list them:

Jimmy Ballard
Brian Manzella
Homer Kelley
John Dunigan
Peter Croker
Ben Hogan

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head that I have seen that explain their method in a way that is new and different. I know Kelley's work isn't a method, but he came up with LOTS of new stuff that hadn't been discovered and explained stuff in a different way.
There are MANY people that have came up with new concepts and drills...

Dunigan? What has he come up with? "two-plane swing?" It's been around forever. It's called a plane shift. He reads TGM. He knows.

"New" is relative...
 
Ragman,
I am referring to the drills that Dunigan provides. He has a TON of ideas and drills that I have never hear of. There are definantly more people than I listed, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Most books, videos, and lessons are just a re-hash of stuff that has already been said. Not many instructors have come up with a new way to get a point across. They try to make it new, but it isn't. There are VERY few who actually do have something new to contribute. I think Dunigan has a TON and is very overlooked. His swing concept isn't new (it's described well, but not new), but his drills and outlook is definantly unique and fresh.
 
quote:Originally posted by benhogan54

Ragman,
I am referring to the drills that Dunigan provides. He has a TON of ideas and drills that I have never hear of. There are definantly more people than I listed, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Most books, videos, and lessons are just a re-hash of stuff that has already been said. Not many instructors have come up with a new way to get a point across. They try to make it new, but it isn't. There are VERY few who actually do have something new to contribute. I think Dunigan has a TON and is very overlooked. His swing concept isn't new (it's described well, but not new), but his drills and outlook is definantly unique and fresh.
EXACTLY which of his drills are original?
 
I have never heard of his "tilt and go drill". I have never heard of setting a golf bag behind you and starting down by moving the club towards it do get on-plane (for people who are drastically over the top). I have never heard of his image of the golf swing being 2 circles.
 
quote:Originally posted by benhogan54

I have never heard of his "tilt and go drill". I have never heard of setting a golf bag behind you and starting down by moving the club towards it do get on-plane (for people who are drastically over the top). I have never heard of his image of the golf swing being 2 circles.
got link?
 
quote:Originally posted by hue

Check out this guy http://www.cga-golf.com/ He plays off about 12 and so called teaches touring pros. I think he taught Ronan Raffety I am sure that I read that Brian gave him a few lessons also. He used to be a high pressure sales man and has applied it to golf instruction. I know the guy. The reason he is cocky is that he knows so little yet has had success with it. I think his moto should be " Bull**** baffles Brains". Have any of you guys come accross Scott Cranfield ? Another super cocky teacher is Euro tour coach Denis Pugh. I had lessons with him and he does not deliver the goods. Both of these guys would never set up a web site like this to really help people play better golf like Brian has. They don't get the flack like Brian does either. Both are on Sky TV and big names on this side of the pond. I would love to see Brian stick it to them. Brian: Have you approched any TV companies and if so what happened?

Interesting what you say about Scott Cranfield. He always seemed a bit vague to me on sky tv. How come you know him? Seeing that we live in a similar area hue, do you recommend anyone who is worth having lessons with?
 

hue

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ukhacker: Scott used to teach at Hainault Forest GC before he scaled up his bull****. I watched him give many lessons there on the practice ground and also at the golf range he teaches North Circular. I also know a lot of people that know him well before he got on TV. One of them is on the Euro Senior tour and is doing very well there. He said that in his opinion the only coach worth seeing over here is Bob Torrence he was not very flattering about Scott. Most of the Essex coaches teach rehashed Leadbetter type stuff and are junk. Keep away from Gary Pike he was the one who likes the head in front of the ball at impact. Over here I only will take advice from one pro and he is a friend of mine and a great player in Ireland. Other than that I learn by watching better players and off the net from Brian etc. The only guys I would like to take lessons and advice regarding the swing from would be Brian, Ben Doyle, Chuck Evans ,Bono ( Patrick/Phillygolfer) and Dude(golfing randy/randy/ro) and they are in the States. On the mental side I would take advice from keygolf( Carey Mumford)Scott likes to so called teach in this area but it is more along the self help book philosophy the "Grin and grow rich" type of thing. I do not think there are any A1s over here in the UK.
 

EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

I have NO problem with what ED is doing, although it does look silly at times.

I ban no one.

AS for what I teach, let me say this...when my video comes out and then my book...they (The mags and troubleshooters,etal) will ATTACK my material as HIRETICAL. Watch.


I don't doubt that at all. Nearly every book that presents alternative views (read, what isn't being taught at the time) is shot down.

Dante's book is a good example.

The proof is in the pudding as they say.... and his book/info stands the test of time. I honestly hope Brian's does too.

If there is a way to communicate to 'all' golfers how to swing that is simple, and quick to learn, the PGA, golf digest, and many, many others have a vested interest in not letting it get out. Bad for their bussiness. Gotta love capitalism. Doesn't always produce the best results for everyone but those in control.
 

EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by rosser

FanofHogan, but you forget that others are liking that fact, that EdZ is only stating his opinion, about Brian posts, that it is not anything new, as Brian states it to be. I wish Brian well, but the fact he is stating a lot of things that have been said by many others.

To go to the top, this is the path, if Brian can truly bring down handicaps, of which I might add, none of the so called elite teachers have. Then what EdZ is doing will only make Brian either succeed or fail, because there is know room in the den for playing the same old fiddle.

Either you turn the heads and minds or you end up in the same pasture, where most of the teachers are headed. The mind and body can be taught, but you can't
pull them apart. Think smarter not harder!

Way to go EdZ and Brian, bring it on!


Thanks Rosser.... you summed up the situation very well. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, or annoy them with my posts. Just seeking truth, and better golf for everyone reading this, and other, forums.
 

EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by ragman

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

and Smith is where he is, and Brian is where he is... so..... what does that tell you?

I like Smith's teaching, better than most anyway... but of course none of them talk about the right hand/wrist/palm/forearm/plane, which is very unfortunate..... but then if they told the truth, they'd be out of a job - Just like Bush ;)
Just like Bush?

Maybe I interpreted your statement wrong.....you said Bush told the truth?

...and their still looking for 'weapons of mass destruction' while soldiers get killed every day......

Yep, you misunderstood.... the guy SHOULD be out of the job, and will be once more people understand the truth. Enough politics though... let's keep this about golf, sorry I shouldn't have made the reference.
 

EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by FanofHogan

Rosser, I have no problem with other opinions, but there comes a time when it crosses the line between opinion, and discredit. Ed is has passed that line in my opinion. I come here to learn about TGM. I dont dislike Ed and have stated that before. But, It's getting starting to get old and look as if it is a personal attack on Brian's integrity. Sorry, that is just how I feel. This is Brian's froum, what else would anyone expect to hear but questions to him and posts by him. If a person doesnt agree with what he says, why stick around?

For the record, I don't disagree with most of what Brian says. It IS very good info. As with all things golf, one must take information in the context of their own situation/swing.

As far as the 'original' comments, I would like to suggest that those who feel this way read some of the material I have referenced.

The Four Magic Moves - by Dante is an outstanding book that has many useful insights into the swing, and a fair amount of Brian's approach can be enhanced by reading it. As with nearly all golf books, none can claim to be 100% the best approach for everyone, but this one applies more than most IMO.

George Knudson's book is also a must read IMO.

Those two books alone could really help people, especially when you combine their approaches.

I am not trying to discredit anyone, but I am most certainly going to debate and challenge.

It would be boring indeed if everyone agreed!
 
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