I'll give you guys an out....

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
For the Book literalists....

Just market your spin-off as "A way" to play golf based on a book that has a lot of good information in it.

Period.

Don't say it is the scientific be all and end all.

And I'll just wish you luck.
 
i was wondering this very thing the other day...

why can't they just say "our stuff might not be 100% correct scientifically, but it helps our students improve."

how hard is that?
 
i was wondering this very thing the other day...

why can't they just say "our stuff might not be 100% correct scientifically, but it helps our students improve."

how hard is that?

Because part of their sell is that it's based on "science". Anything that counters that "science" makes it lose it's luster. But that's the chance you take when you make such claims.
 

natep

New
If they can't adapt then they're destined to become irrelevant.

Sounds like the writing may already be on the wall.
 
Because part of their sell is that it's based on "science". Anything that counters that "science" makes it loose it's luster. But that's the chance you take when you make such claims.

Actually, my (outsider's) take on TGM is that part of their sell is that it's based on "secret science". I think the allure is a somewhat geeky "hey, none of those squares reading Golf Digest are getting THIS dope". The barriers to entry, as anyone who has ever tried to read the book, are rather high - so that many people who labour through it earn themselves a certain self-satisfied exclusivity. I'd like to think that this applies more to amateur forum warriors than genuine on-the-line teachers.

You can attack it with science, common-sense or empirical testing - and I don't think it'll make a huge difference to the sort of person who's bought into it in the first place.
 
I wish it wasn't but it really is becoming a cult (TGM)

"This is right, if anyone says it isn't then they are blasphemous (don't get it)"

It was such a good starting point of cataloguing the variations of the golf swing.

When did it become a "How to or you will go to hell"

Why can't it be used as a starting point and built upon?

Oh yeah, it has, here and elsewhere....

I hear Tom Cruise is learning to play golf....

Apparently the aliens left behind a yellow book on the only way to play golf a few million years ago...
 

leon

New
If they can't adapt then they're destined to become irrelevant.

You hit the nail on the head there. You have to expect that if something is based on "science" it will likely never be completely true forever. Science is really just our way to try and explain why things work the way they do, right? Theories are challenged and often are proven wrong, or at least incomplete. Heck, people used to think the earth was flat and at the centre of the universe.

A long time ago I wrote my PhD thesis on ball impacts (unfortunately for tennis, not golf, but you can't have it all). I used what was at the time state of the art high speed video equipment which recorded at around 4000 frames per second (from memory). Colleagues used it for looking at golf ball impacts, which from memory were around 1 millisecond duration. So this gave them maybe 4 frames of video for the total impact. Oh yeah, and it was black & white, and it was really grainy and not great quality due to the amount of light we had to use at such high speeds.

I went back to visit my ex-colleagues a couple of years ago (unfortunately I'm not involved in sports research anymore, although I wish I still was) and they were routinely using over 10000 fps COLOUR cameras, with higher speeds still for particular applications. The videos were amazing - stuff you could never previously have seen, in clear detail.

My point? We I guess just that science forever marches onwards, whether we like it or not. As technology keeps advancing, particularly with regards to high speed imaging and laser measurement, we are likely to learn more and more, but at the expense of the older stuff. If you're not willing to embrace new theory then just make sure you don't stray too close to the edge of the earth :)

Well there goes my first post. I only came here for help with my golf swing!
 
You hit the nail on the head there. You have to expect that if something is based on "science" it will likely never be completely true forever. Science is really just our way to try and explain why things work the way they do, right? Theories are challenged and often are proven wrong, or at least incomplete. Heck, people used to think the earth was flat and at the centre of the universe.

A long time ago I wrote my PhD thesis on ball impacts (unfortunately for tennis, not golf, but you can't have it all). I used what was at the time state of the art high speed video equipment which recorded at around 4000 frames per second (from memory). Colleagues used it for looking at golf ball impacts, which from memory were around 1 millisecond duration. So this gave them maybe 4 frames of video for the total impact. Oh yeah, and it was black & white, and it was really grainy and not great quality due to the amount of light we had to use at such high speeds.

I went back to visit my ex-colleagues a couple of years ago (unfortunately I'm not involved in sports research anymore, although I wish I still was) and they were routinely using over 10000 fps COLOUR cameras, with higher speeds still for particular applications. The videos were amazing - stuff you could never previously have seen, in clear detail.

My point? We I guess just that science forever marches onwards, whether we like it or not. As technology keeps advancing, particularly with regards to high speed imaging and laser measurement, we are likely to learn more and more, but at the expense of the older stuff. If you're not willing to embrace new theory then just make sure you don't stray too close to the edge of the earth :)

Well there goes my first post. I only came here for help with my golf swing!

Well said. Welcome.
 
You hit the nail on the head there. You have to expect that if something is based on "science" it will likely never be completely true forever. Science is really just our way to try and explain why things work the way they do, right? Theories are challenged and often are proven wrong, or at least incomplete. Heck, people used to think the earth was flat and at the centre of the universe.

A long time ago I wrote my PhD thesis on ball impacts (unfortunately for tennis, not golf, but you can't have it all). I used what was at the time state of the art high speed video equipment which recorded at around 4000 frames per second (from memory). Colleagues used it for looking at golf ball impacts, which from memory were around 1 millisecond duration. So this gave them maybe 4 frames of video for the total impact. Oh yeah, and it was black & white, and it was really grainy and not great quality due to the amount of light we had to use at such high speeds.

I went back to visit my ex-colleagues a couple of years ago (unfortunately I'm not involved in sports research anymore, although I wish I still was) and they were routinely using over 10000 fps COLOUR cameras, with higher speeds still for particular applications. The videos were amazing - stuff you could never previously have seen, in clear detail.

My point? We I guess just that science forever marches onwards, whether we like it or not. As technology keeps advancing, particularly with regards to high speed imaging and laser measurement, we are likely to learn more and more, but at the expense of the older stuff. If you're not willing to embrace new theory then just make sure you don't stray too close to the edge of the earth :)

Well there goes my first post. I only came here for help with my golf swing!
Likewise, Leon. I never tire of listening to a well stated position, some evidence and a conclusion.
Welcome.
 

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
You hit the nail on the head there. You have to expect that if something is based on "science" it will likely never be completely true forever. Science is really just our way to try and explain why things work the way they do, right? Theories are challenged and often are proven wrong, or at least incomplete. Heck, people used to think the earth was flat and at the centre of the universe.

A long time ago I wrote my PhD thesis on ball impacts (unfortunately for tennis, not golf, but you can't have it all). I used what was at the time state of the art high speed video equipment which recorded at around 4000 frames per second (from memory). Colleagues used it for looking at golf ball impacts, which from memory were around 1 millisecond duration. So this gave them maybe 4 frames of video for the total impact. Oh yeah, and it was black & white, and it was really grainy and not great quality due to the amount of light we had to use at such high speeds.

I went back to visit my ex-colleagues a couple of years ago (unfortunately I'm not involved in sports research anymore, although I wish I still was) and they were routinely using over 10000 fps COLOUR cameras, with higher speeds still for particular applications. The videos were amazing - stuff you could never previously have seen, in clear detail.

My point? We I guess just that science forever marches onwards, whether we like it or not. As technology keeps advancing, particularly with regards to high speed imaging and laser measurement, we are likely to learn more and more, but at the expense of the older stuff. If you're not willing to embrace new theory then just make sure you don't stray too close to the edge of the earth :)

Well there goes my first post. I only came here for help with my golf swing!

Fantastic stuff, Leon.

You should post more often.
 
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