Inactivity of hips

[OLIVER1]

Following on from my introductory post...
If one is on-plane deep into the downswing and everything is looking good, what would be the most common error if the hips failed to rotate into an optimum position. How would the body react to get to the ball and how would this manifest itself in shot patterns
BTW...This really is a super forum
Oliver

 

[SteveT]

I assume you are referring to "blocking" the hips in the downswing. This is common in golfers with poor hip joint flexibility and slinging a protruding pot belly .. and usually you find both together.

The brain will not allow the spine to be compromised and injured by wildly throwing a 50-100 lb pot belly around. The brain will abort the hip rotation to stop the momentum of a pot belly to save the spinal chord (which is an extension of the brain).

This sudden stop in rotation will dump all the momentum from the hips and belly upward in the kinetic chain and cause the shoulders to rotate too quickly thus wildly whipping the arms and club in an uncontrollable over the top path.

Blocking the hips and belly also forces the golfer to straighten up and come out of his spine angle, which further contributes to the over the top move. It's a golfswing mess. That's why you see obese golfers with an upright address stance and upright lie clubs ... and then swinging on a flat plane/path as they come into Impact. It just doesn't work!!!

Clearing the hips is required to gradually decelerate the hips and thus create a smooth kinetic sequencing into the shoulders, arms and club. Looking at good golfers from behind, you will see them retaining their spinal tilt into followthru thus completing their kinetic sequencing in an efficient manner.

 

[Rick Dandy]

Unbounded Omniscience

YouTube - samvaknin's Channel

 

[natep]

In my experience if the hips dont open enough on the downswing I will be swinging WAY to the right. However, opening them too much before impact causes the opposite to happen. For me there is an optimum middle ground.

 

[Rick Dandy]

littleacorns: If SteveT has a problem, I think you've got a problem too...

I appreciate your honest comment. I will consider it. I request you read the following thread "Tiger/Putting Experts" where the following quote is referenced: Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveT
Putting is more 'intimate' than 'athletic' ... and it's stupid simple to putt given that the putting stroke is usually no more than 12" back and forth into Impact. Tiger just found something to his liking and he switched ... he's done that before ...

Mr. Lucas Responded: "Could you please lay out some of your credentials for making this claim? Or is this your opinion?"
__________________
Thanks.

 

[Olof Karlson]

I appreciate your honest comment. I will consider it. I request you read the following thread "Tiger/Putting Experts" where the following quote is referenced: Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveT
Putting is more 'intimate' than 'athletic' ... and it's stupid simple to putt given that the putting stroke is usually no more than 12" back and forth into Impact. Tiger just found something to his liking and he switched ... he's done that before ...

Mr. Lucas Responded: "Could you please lay out some of your credentials for making this claim? Or is this your opinion?"
__________________
Thanks.

I deleted the post that you responded to and made a similar post in your thread "Is SteveT mini caedus?". I decided that I will not be a part of sabotaging this thread. I hope Brian will clear it up.

 

[Rick Dandy]

The shake down artist ain't me Olof. Read the thread.

 

[Olof Karlson]

What I see in this thread is you posting a link to a youtube channel that's not about anything even close to the OPs question. I don't see what SteveT wrote in a thread about putting really has to do with this thread either??

I actually think that SteveT wrote a pretty good answer in this thread, even though I do not quite agree with him about how disastrous big bellies are for golf swings. I also think that SteveT appears to posess some useful knowledge about the golf swing that could possibly help all of us understand golf better.

I think that your response to this thread did not have anything to do with this thread or golf at all and I saw a few similar posts from you in other threads, which is why I reacted.

 

[SteveT]

..... I do not quite agree with him about how disastrous big bellies are for golf swing

Olof ... how can you say that .... can't you appreciate what a 50+lb pot belly does to a golfer???

The body center of mass shifts towards the front and the body must be realigned by shoving the butt backwards to keep the weight off the toes. This forces obese golfers to stand more erect at Address, which not only blocks the hips, it blocks the shoulders. Obese golfers have no angular separation of hips and shoulders, and they in fact rotate both together. The hips and shoulders are a single unit.

When the hips are parallel to the target line in the downswing, they nearly stop to control the momentum of the belly mass, and the shoulder rotation stops too! Oh sure, they continue rotating into the followthru, but that's after they have blocked their rotation at Impact and then finish with a slow rotation to look like they have a full swing.

Olof ... obese men are terrible golfers, and they get upset when they are told the truth ... they are proud of their pot bellies because it's part of their intimate macho image .... e.g. Great oaks from little acorns grow ... sure but you don't see fat oaks..!!!

 

[Burner]

Following on from my introductory post...
If one is on-plane deep into the downswing and everything is looking good, what would be the most common error if the hips failed to rotate into an optimum position. How would the body react to get to the ball and how would this manifest itself in shot patterns
BTW...This really is a super forum
Oliver

Should any part of the pivot train break down prior to impact the most likely scenario is that the arms and hands will continue in their quest to deliver the club head to the ball.

Flipping, running out of right arm, etc are the probable consequences, with self evident results.

This will be common to all golfers, irrespective of body types.

Despite Steve T's antipathy to persons he considers to be physically less perfect than himself, pivot breakdown is not the exclusive domain of those he so despises.

 

[Olof Karlson]

Olof ... how can you say that .... can't you appreciate what a 50+lb pot belly does to a golfer???

The body center of mass shifts towards the front and the body must be realigned by shoving the butt backwards to keep the weight off the toes. This forces obese golfers to stand more erect at Address, which not only blocks the hips, it blocks the shoulders. Obese golfers have no angular separation of hips and shoulders, and they in fact rotate both together. The hips and shoulders are a single unit.

When the hips are parallel to the target line in the downswing, they nearly stop to control the momentum of the belly mass, and the shoulder rotation stops too! Oh sure, they continue rotating into the followthru, but that's after they have blocked their rotation at Impact and then finish with a slow rotation to look like they have a full swing.

Olof ... obese men are terrible golfers, and they get upset when they are told the truth ... they are proud of their pot bellies because it's part of their intimate macho image .... e.g. Great oaks from little acorns grow ... sure but you don't see fat oaks..!!!

I think being obese is bad for golf, but not disastrous. John Daly could probably beat the shit out of both of us at golf (I'm pretty fit physically too) being very overweight (although he seems to have gotten into much better shape now). Being fat is bad, but can be compensated for. I think that the compensations you have to do being obese makes you more inconsistent than what you would be without the fat (JD wasn't the most consistent player, was he?)

 

[golfdad]

i think we need to make a distinction between truly obese, slightly overweight, bulky to be born with, etc.

further, some overweight people are quite flexible. i think john d belongs to that camp.

on the other hand, some regular weight folks are not that flexible, like many readers here, haha

between having power/strength vs having flexibility,,,the latter imo is much more important. rarely do we see power/strength get turned into advantage,,,usually it means lost balls

 

[Rick Dandy]

Read it one more time.

What I see in this thread is you posting a link to a youtube channel that's not about anything even close to the OPs question. I don't see what SteveT wrote in a thread about putting really has to do with this thread either??

I actually think that SteveT wrote a pretty good answer in this thread, even though I do not quite agree with him about how disastrous big bellies are for golf swings. I also think that SteveT appears to posess some useful knowledge about the golf swing that could possibly help all of us understand golf better.

I think that your response to this thread did not have anything to do with this thread or golf at all and I saw a few similar posts from you in other threads, which is why I reacted.

Mr. Olof, I respectfully say to you that it has everything to do with golf. Please focus on Mr. Lucas' UNANSWERED question. It is a question that could use an answer regarding the erudite SteveT on every threadpost he dumps on.

 

[SteveT]

Olof and golfdad ..... John Daly ingrained his golfswing when he was a lean youngster, and was able to retain his golfswing mechanics after he let himself go obese, as have other pro golfers. What I am referring to is all those non-athletic fatsos who think they can swing a golf club and show up on the golf course ready to play.

Since Western population is getting obese, more and more of these guys are showing up on the golf course with no real hope of improving because of their bodies. Some people shouldn't be playing golf at all ... hold'em poker and video games yes .. not golf, unless they can shed the blubber.

Older obese men have inefficient muscles because their muscle fibres are filled in between with fat cells, which creates bulk and friction that reduces the strength and reaction of those muscles.

The most athletic thing an obese golfer can do is reduce weight, and I am very supportive of our BManz who intends to shed some weight. I respect obese men who are making a serious commitment to losing weight ... and I have contempt for those who guard their weight handicap and cry because I am hurting their feeelings ... marshmallow fellows ...

 

[Bigwill]

Olof and golfdad ..... John Daly ingrained his golfswing when he was a lean youngster, and was able to retain his golfswing mechanics after he let himself go obese, as have other pro golfers. What I am referring to is all those non-athletic fatsos who think they can swing a golf club and show up on the golf course ready to play.

Since Western population is getting obese, more and more of these guys are showing up on the golf course with no real hope of improving because of their bodies. Some people shouldn't be playing golf at all ... hold'em poker and video games yes .. not golf, unless they can shed the blubber.

Older obese men have inefficient muscles because their muscle fibres are filled in between with fat cells, which creates bulk and friction that reduces the strength and reaction of those muscles.

The most athletic thing an obese golfer can do is reduce weight, and I am very supportive of our BManz who intends to shed some weight. I respect obese men who are making a serious commitment to losing weight ... and I have contempt for those who guard their weight handicap and cry because I am hurting their feeelings ... marshmallow fellows ...

While you make a good point about about overweight golfers (or individuals in general) needing to lose weight, I think that you're also making overly simplistic generalizations about the ability of individuals who are considered overweight/obese to perform athletic movements, like the golf swing for example.

 

[golfdad]

Olof and golfdad ..... John Daly ingrained his golfswing when he was a lean youngster, and was able to retain his golfswing mechanics after he let himself go obese, as have other pro golfers. What I am referring to is all those non-athletic fatsos who think they can swing a golf club and show up on the golf course ready to play.

Since Western population is getting obese, more and more of these guys are showing up on the golf course with no real hope of improving because of their bodies. Some people shouldn't be playing golf at all ... hold'em poker and video games yes .. not golf, unless they can shed the blubber.

Older obese men have inefficient muscles because their muscle fibres are filled in between with fat cells, which creates bulk and friction that reduces the strength and reaction of those muscles.

The most athletic thing an obese golfer can do is reduce weight, and I am very supportive of our BManz who intends to shed some weight. I respect obese men who are making a serious commitment to losing weight ... and I have contempt for those who guard their weight handicap and cry because I am hurting their feeelings ... marshmallow fellows ...

steve, as i said previously, you are a fun read (although it seems that lately your fan club is shrinking by couple but i don't care, as long as you guys have fun with the banter. i hope in real life you guys behave in a way that is more socially acceptable, hehe.

anyway, i agree with bigwill that broad generalization can lead to extreme bias, and not necessarily scientific, a term that is thrown around quite loosely on this board may i add.

i think an obese individual, with reasonable cardiac health, with reasonable degree of flexibility, should pick up golf and make the most of it. steve, you may be genetically prone to be on the thin side, so you must understand that others maybe genetically prone to be on the heavy side. my point is that whereas some obese individuals probably will not progress much with attempts at golf, others may see a transformation, under proper guidance or with new found inner passion, both in their golf game and in their attitude toward their health management. blubber is not forever.

fyi, a recent mayo clinic study looking at effective ways of sustainable weight loss reveals that the best way to keep the fat off is actually not exercise, but diet change, or eating habit change. they found, which is true in my case, exercise often triggers more hunger and people end up eating more after exercise. haha.

 

[Jwat]

fyi, a recent mayo clinic study looking at effective ways of sustainable weight loss reveals that the best way to keep the fat off is actually not exercise, but diet change, or eating habit change. they found, which is true in my case, exercise often triggers more hunger and people end up eating more after exercise. haha.

Good idea, sit around on your fat a$$ all day and not eat. Exercise is always over-rated for the lazy!

 

[Olof Karlson]

Mr. Olof, I respectfully say to you that it has everything to do with golf. Please focus on Mr. Lucas' UNANSWERED question. It is a question that could use an answer regarding the erudite SteveT on every threadpost he dumps on.

It has nothing to do with this thread. Please keep your responses to that thread in that thread. I think that everyone already knows the answer to that question, it is personal opinion. If you want to discuss what SteveT wrote in that thread, please do so constructively in that thread. Oh, and by the way, just posting a link to a youtube challenge is not very constructive. I will not give any further responses to this matter in this thread. Please discuss this in the right thread, with PM or make a new thread.

SteveT: I think people being unflexible is the real problem. Those who once in their life played some sport like hockey and were pretty good at it and later in their life decide to take up golf and think that they'll be single-digit automatically if they just hit enough balls on the range are a little bit pathetic. Even more pathetic when they refuse to understand that their non-existent flexibility is the problem.

Being obese certainly doesn't help these golfers, and it's often the cause to their flexibility problems. And if one wants to get really good at golf, one should certainly make sure not to be obese. But I think that flexibility issues are what really affects peoples golf games. It affects things like being able to make a decent hip action.

 

[Rick Dandy]

Erudite SteveT kool-aid again. Is it SteveT 1 or SteveT 2?

 

[Rick Dandy]

Olof and golfdad ..... John Daly ingrained his golfswing when he was a lean youngster, and was able to retain his golfswing mechanics after he let himself go obese, as have other pro golfers. What I am referring to is all those non-athletic fatsos who think they can swing a golf club and show up on the golf course ready to play.

Since Western population is getting obese, more and more of these guys are showing up on the golf course with no real hope of improving because of their bodies. Some people shouldn't be playing golf at all ... hold'em poker and video games yes .. not golf, unless they can shed the blubber.

Older obese men have inefficient muscles because their muscle fibres are filled in between with fat cells, which creates bulk and friction that reduces the strength and reaction of those muscles.

The most athletic thing an obese golfer can do is reduce weight, and I am very supportive of our BManz who intends to shed some weight. I respect obese men who are making a serious commitment to losing weight ... and I have contempt for those who guard their weight handicap and cry because I am hurting their feeelings ... marshmallow fellows ...

SteveT 1 or SteveT 2, will you please footnote your experience with John Daly from his teenage years or perhaps your conversations with him as an obese Major Champion.