Invisible exertions
- Thread starter mandrin
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So while the two resultant swings look nearly identical, I take it they are really not since the time to impact is significantly different between the two cases. I presume the clubhead speed at impact of swing "A" is higher than that of swing "B". Does that mean that there is a single most "efficient" torque profile?
Jay
Jay
TROYNYGOLFER
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Two distinct golf teaching philosophies of 2D flatland golf instructors.
Have a look for yourself and don't hesitate to post your comments.
However, since we are "the enlightened ones," we either teach or search out teachers, that realize that 2D flatland golf instruction is so passe that we of the haute couture world of golf are well beyond that stage.
It would still be a hell of a lot easier if there was Trackman within 100 miles of where I live.
mandrin
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Jay,
There are two things to consider: -1- torques and -2- motion
1) torques
The torques are completely different as is obvious from comparing the figures.
2) motion
If no time scale is given and no measurement is made of the clubhead velocity then these two swings would be absolutely indistinguishable from each other. Just tell me if there is a difference between Fig4a and Fig4b ? However both time duration and clubhead speed can be different. In this particular case I made the two impact velocities the same by proper choice of torque1 magnitude. The efficiencies are about the same.
However don't forget that the aim of my exposé is not of that order. It is to show that even for the most simple golfer, Iron Byron, there can be for the eye identical looking swings but nevertheless being motivated by totally different torques.
There are so many people teaching very different methods and yet their swings are often looking very similar. That is very irritating for someone trying to understand what is going on. My linked post is an attempt to show some light on this matter.
Mandrin - My initial interpretation of your article was that there were multiple solutions to the Jorgensen double hinge model (I read that book many years ago so I keep going back to it when we discuss mechanical swing models on this forum) for a particular motion. Then, I realized that the time to impact was ~50% greater for the second torque profile and I started second guessing myself on what you were trying to show.
Maybe I was getting to quantitative, so based on your response I'm back to the point that two vastly different swing approaches (and everywhere in between) can produce very similar swings qualitatively since the reactions of the torques are not independent.
Maybe I was getting to quantitative, so based on your response I'm back to the point that two vastly different swing approaches (and everywhere in between) can produce very similar swings qualitatively since the reactions of the torques are not independent.
mandrin
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greenfree,
I don't know quite what you are looking for as response. For me robots and math models are just subject to do only and only whatever we put into them as programs. Changing a program is readily done. Humans however are complex machineries and moreover saturated with ideas, emotions and feelings. Everyday a human golfer has to start a bit anew. It seems self evident but perhaps most likely I do misunderstand your questions.
greenfree,
I don't know quite what you are looking for as response. For me robots and math models are just subject to do only and only whatever we put into them as programs. Changing a program is readily done. Humans however are complex machineries and moreover saturated with ideas, emotions and feelings. Everyday a human golfer has to start a bit anew. It seems self evident but perhaps most likely I do misunderstand your questions.
You answered my question. Thank you. It's our perception right or wrong, of how we think things work ,that takes us down these different paths. Like you said we are complex, full of ideas and feelings.
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What these models suggest to me is that an instructor, observing a student’s execution and results, and taking assumptions as to how the student made that happen, is in a position to be absolutely correct….. or diametrically wrong. Tough duty - and begs for high regard for any consistently effective instructor. Viva the B-Man!!!
Or partially correct.
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