Invisible Exertions
- Thread starter mandrin
- Start date
- Status
birdie_man
New
Kk gotcha gfree.
birdie_man
New
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this mandrin:
"Even if above concerns an Iron Byron type golf robot, therefore not a real golfer immensely more complex, it still shows that even a very simple Iron Byron golf instructor could mystify his students telling them to use active wrist torque throughout the whole down swing, and indeed actually doing it, but likely not knowing himself that it takes a rather special torque, developed at the core, for his students to imitate his nice looking swing."
...
Is the teacher doing what he is teaching? Is he doing that, AND more? (not teaching the 'more')
Why does the lesson not work for the student??
"Even if above concerns an Iron Byron type golf robot, therefore not a real golfer immensely more complex, it still shows that even a very simple Iron Byron golf instructor could mystify his students telling them to use active wrist torque throughout the whole down swing, and indeed actually doing it, but likely not knowing himself that it takes a rather special torque, developed at the core, for his students to imitate his nice looking swing."
...
Is the teacher doing what he is teaching? Is he doing that, AND more? (not teaching the 'more')
Why does the lesson not work for the student??
Last edited:
mandrin
New
birdie_man
Instructors, such as for instance, Peter Croker and the late Tom Tomasello, might teach an early release but seemingly don't show this in their own swing when demonstrating. This is not uncommon in golf. Pros and instructors alike teaching one thing and doing another.
However, in a more general way, my post is trying to make us more aware that the human golfer is a rather complex machinery and that it is rather more easy to teach golf from the outside (effect) instead from the inside (cause) knowing the invisible exertions. I can already produce identical looking swings even with a very simple Iron Byron robot using wildly different torques.
Therefore considering real golfers with so many more variables thrown into the equation it is quite reasonable to assume that any particular golf swing is very difficult to really imitate not knowing from the inside all the various torques being at work. Moe Norman had a very simple looking swing but yet seemingly nobody is capable to swing exactly like Moe.
birdie_man
Instructors, such as for instance, Peter Croker and the late Tom Tomasello, might teach an early release but seemingly don't show this in their own swing when demonstrating. This is not uncommon in golf. Pros and instructors alike teaching one thing and doing another.
However, in a more general way, my post is trying to make us more aware that the human golfer is a rather complex machinery and that it is rather more easy to teach golf from the outside (effect) instead from the inside (cause) knowing the invisible exertions. I can already produce identical looking swings even with a very simple Iron Byron robot using wildly different torques.
Therefore considering real golfers with so many more variables thrown into the equation it is quite reasonable to assume that any particular golf swing is very difficult to really imitate not knowing from the inside all the various torques being at work. Moe Norman had a very simple looking swing but yet seemingly nobody is capable to swing exactly like Moe.
"Looking" from the outside is different than "doing" from the inside.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Hi Mandrin
birdie_man
New
"Looking" from the outside is different than "doing" from the inside.
No doubt man...I love the premise...
I can do all kinds of different things and my swing still looks very similar. Of course I don't mean exact...and obviously some things are pretty obvious...and it helps if you know what to look for...
But there are some things I do that always seem to show themselves. Regardless of what muscles I am using to move the club, and how I am using them.
It must have to do with what I NEED to do (to make the club do what it needs to do) to hit a ball...and also "how I am built", of course. (physically and mentally as well)
Every action is preceded by a thought. (conscious or non-conscious)
Sequence: conscious intent>> action>> result does not necessarily look different
...
Intent is very important!
I guess that's the obvious part. Maybe less obvious is how detailed it can be.
Last edited:
Waynkie Doodle
New
Instructors, such as for instance, Peter Croker and the late Tom Tomasello, might teach an early release but seemingly don't show this in their own swing when demonstrating. This is not uncommon in golf. Pros and instructors alike teaching one thing and doing another.
This is probably very common, even though they're instructors this doesn't make them any different than anyone else. At the end of the day what ever it "feels" like your doing and what is actually happening are most likely never going to be the same thing. So even an instructor will need someone else or a high speed camera in order to have any idea what is really happening as that club goes around their body. In essence this is the reason why teaching this game is much more difficult than playing it... any day.
- Status