RickPinewild
New
There is a first stage qualifier being held at my club (Pinewild) in Pinehurst on May 21st. I plan to watch, but I want to watch a TGM player. If anyone knows of anyone, please let me know.
Is there a "TGM Swing"?
- Thread starter RickPinewild
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I would to start a movement to eliminate this wording. There are no "TGM Players", all players are TGM. The book provides an explanation of why things work and also classifies movements in the golf swing. It is a system which explains all the movements in any golf swing, it is not some some system of instruction based on any particular trait.
rbaumgolf
New
TGM certified
There are players though that have been trained by "certified" GSED/GSSB instructors suing the "best practices of the yellow TGM manual
There are players though that have been trained by "certified" GSED/GSSB instructors suing the "best practices of the yellow TGM manual
birdie_man
New
Go look at anyone man.......
Correct me if I'm wrong (seriously)......
But it sounds to me like you may be looking for someone who epitomizes a "TGM swing" or a "TGM way of doing things" or w/e. There really is no such thing. (some swings obviously are better than others but EVERYONE fits in there in one way or another)
Again- do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
Correct me if I'm wrong (seriously)......
But it sounds to me like you may be looking for someone who epitomizes a "TGM swing" or a "TGM way of doing things" or w/e. There really is no such thing. (some swings obviously are better than others but EVERYONE fits in there in one way or another)
Again- do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
Last edited:
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Full Circle.
I get this question from time to time, and to be honest, I had wittled the response down to about 15 minutes.
But, the following paraphrased quote says it all much better than I ever could:
Whoa!
Hey, thanks dude. That about wraps it up for me.
Some guy that DOESN'T TEACH for a living, is telling two guys who I am not sure even WANT TO BE classifed as "Golfing Machiners," that they AREN'T because they don't teach ANY PARTICULAR movement, component, or procedure.
No Donald, I think he believes what he says.
That's one reason why Mac O'Grady calls his stuff—which he says is 80-85% from the book—M.O.R.A.D., and Bennett and Plummer don't put the letters next to their name, and Ben Doyle would have called his stuff something different if the wrong person bought the rights.
Thoose guys want to teach what they believe is best.
Me too.
So, here's the problem. It is not aprobelm for me anymore, because I call what I do something else—The MANZELLA MATRIX. And you know what? The funny thing is nobody, anywhere, or any place, is saying that I teach the MANZELLA MATRIX incorrectly. I like it that way. The only thing that tells me anything is the student, the ball the hit and their scorecard. The rest of it, is ALL B.S. and marketing.
For me, I just try as hard as I can to help me students, and try be the best teacher on tpalnet earth. I know this—There ain't no way on earth, any one system-method-opinion-style-or someone's wishes will fix 'em all. That's why I teach multiple things, in multiple ways, to the MUTITUDES of different golfers in golfdom.
Tiger want's to be the best. Manzella wants to be the best.
They say Bear Bryant could beat you with HIS 22 or Yours. I feel the same way. I believe I can out teach whoever with THEIR STUFF or mine. That's just the way I feel until I see otherwise. And so far, I haven't seen ANYONE that makes me even get a little nervous.
What is the "Manzella Matrix"?
It is a SYSTEM that includes a myriad of patterns that branch off in all directions from the basic straight-line "Matrix." It is so basic, so utterly perfect in it's explanation, that it can show why any pattern could work, and why some work better than others. It gives the teacher or student a way to improve right away, and move toward the PERFECT CUSTOM PATTERN for them.
Is it "Golfing Machine"?
Well, I'd say that it is based on "Golfing Machine" principles and ALL AVAILABLE INFORMATION about the golf swing, all known "working" patterns, different METHODS for "reaching" the student, and all of my 25 years of research.
How did I come up with it?
One day, there it was, clear as a bell!
Thanks folks, you ALL helped a bunch...and I do mean all.
"What's the problem with the 'Golfing Machine' Community? Can't ya'll all get along?"
I get this question from time to time, and to be honest, I had wittled the response down to about 15 minutes.
But, the following paraphrased quote says it all much better than I ever could:
"They (Bennett and Plummer) are more MORAD than TGM. They don't even teach 'right forearm on plane at address'."
Whoa!
Hey, thanks dude. That about wraps it up for me.
Some guy that DOESN'T TEACH for a living, is telling two guys who I am not sure even WANT TO BE classifed as "Golfing Machiners," that they AREN'T because they don't teach ANY PARTICULAR movement, component, or procedure.
Like Don Villavaso would say, "Are you KIDDING me? Are you on a rib?"
No Donald, I think he believes what he says.
That's one reason why Mac O'Grady calls his stuff—which he says is 80-85% from the book—M.O.R.A.D., and Bennett and Plummer don't put the letters next to their name, and Ben Doyle would have called his stuff something different if the wrong person bought the rights.
Thoose guys want to teach what they believe is best.
Me too.
So, here's the problem. It is not aprobelm for me anymore, because I call what I do something else—The MANZELLA MATRIX. And you know what? The funny thing is nobody, anywhere, or any place, is saying that I teach the MANZELLA MATRIX incorrectly. I like it that way. The only thing that tells me anything is the student, the ball the hit and their scorecard. The rest of it, is ALL B.S. and marketing.
For me, I just try as hard as I can to help me students, and try be the best teacher on tpalnet earth. I know this—There ain't no way on earth, any one system-method-opinion-style-or someone's wishes will fix 'em all. That's why I teach multiple things, in multiple ways, to the MUTITUDES of different golfers in golfdom.
Tiger want's to be the best. Manzella wants to be the best.
They say Bear Bryant could beat you with HIS 22 or Yours. I feel the same way. I believe I can out teach whoever with THEIR STUFF or mine. That's just the way I feel until I see otherwise. And so far, I haven't seen ANYONE that makes me even get a little nervous.
What is the "Manzella Matrix"?
It is a SYSTEM that includes a myriad of patterns that branch off in all directions from the basic straight-line "Matrix." It is so basic, so utterly perfect in it's explanation, that it can show why any pattern could work, and why some work better than others. It gives the teacher or student a way to improve right away, and move toward the PERFECT CUSTOM PATTERN for them.
Is it "Golfing Machine"?
Well, I'd say that it is based on "Golfing Machine" principles and ALL AVAILABLE INFORMATION about the golf swing, all known "working" patterns, different METHODS for "reaching" the student, and all of my 25 years of research.
How did I come up with it?
One day, there it was, clear as a bell!
Thanks folks, you ALL helped a bunch...and I do mean all.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Let me answer a question that is going to come up in regards to this:
No, we probably won't be divulging what The Manzella Matrix is in detail. If you want to see it in action, come and take a lesson from us and you'll get it.
That is all...ta-ta
self-mastery
New
I like that name.
I remember reading that post. The Tour player was responding to the notion that this recent Bennett/Plummer swing information showcases what is learned from a study of TGM: The articles mention TGM more than Mac (I think Bennett/Plummer want it this way).
He points out the obvious: this is more a validation for Morad than it is for TGM, although TGM has benefitted from their recent success. As we all know, the swing is more MORAD than anthing else. And the players working with Bennett/Plummer know that it's based on O'Grady's info.
So, I understand this guy's point. It's more MORAD than what is learned from someone like Brian or other instructors who know TGM.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I couldn't care less what he meant...
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
I knew what he meant as well.
But, for crying out load...."they don't even have "their forearm on plane."
That's a decent percentage of my students as well. That's about the same percentage as those in the WORLD GOLF HALL of FAME that don't.
That's why there is friction, people who don't teach or haven't taught, telling people who do and have, what is "official" and what isn't.
So here ya go:
You are NOT teaching the MANZELLA MATRIX if you FORCE someone's right forearm on plane at address. The right arm positon at address is a RELATIONSHIP and it may be THE THING that helps you "draw a straight line."
Like Zach Johnson. Put his right forearm on plane at address, and stick a fork in him.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
I knew what he meant as well.
But, for crying out load...."they don't even have "their forearm on plane."
That's a decent percentage of my students as well. That's about the same percentage as those in the WORLD GOLF HALL of FAME that don't.
That's why there is friction, people who don't teach or haven't taught, telling people who do and have, what is "official" and what isn't.
So here ya go:
You are NOT teaching the MANZELLA MATRIX if you FORCE someone's right forearm on plane at address. The right arm positon at address is a RELATIONSHIP and it may be THE THING that helps you "draw a straight line."
Like Zach Johnson. Put his right forearm on plane at address, and stick a fork in him.
When you listen to a lot of so called TGMer's who think there is a TGM swing, debate what someone else is teaching... It's fear talking. They don't want anyone to possibly come up with anything that could challenge their convictions. Thats why on a lot of the boards TGM is looked at as some cult, we're right you're wrong... It don't work that way people.
"I have my mind made up, don't confuse me with the facts." What makes great teachers great is the continual learning and striving for excellence. Convictions are wonderful...if they're challenged. If they are, and they "hold water" fantastic, if they don't ..then it's time to retool or at least acknowledge you don't have the whole story.
"I have my mind made up, don't confuse me with the facts." What makes great teachers great is the continual learning and striving for excellence. Convictions are wonderful...if they're challenged. If they are, and they "hold water" fantastic, if they don't ..then it's time to retool or at least acknowledge you don't have the whole story.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Right into the Hall of Fame.
Hall of Fame post Mflog!
Hall of Fame post Mflog!
birdie_man
New
Turned into a real good thread....
Thanks Rick(PineWild)....
I guess all that should "answer your question"??
Thanks Rick(PineWild)....
I guess all that should "answer your question"??
birdie_man
New
Ever hear the term if it broke don't fix it....shouldn't that be the case in the golf swing?
It's not fear talking, it's the fact that they dont' want to be bombarded with more...more...and more insight on the golf swing - something that has been consistent for them...isn't that what everyone wants out of their game? Consistency????
Paralysis by analysis is an overused term for a reason, and it's the reason that everyone feels to divulge more and more information.
If every single teacher told you that your game will never be complete because 'there's more to the story' then how would you ever find consistency and satisfaction? If a teacher thinks there's more to the story, then how the heck are they supposed to teach their students to find a consistent and repeatable swing?
So if someone says they don't want to hear anymore, they don't - leave it be and don't question why they don't want to learn more...it's because they've found their swing and they're going to teach whoever is willing to learn how to find that repeatable swing that we all seek.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Your confusing me Martee, you praise mcflog's post, but it wasn't that long ago that you stated on this forum that Brian didn't teach TGM.
I will say it again. Brian does not teach TGM. Brian teaches what Brian has developed over the years. In doing so TGM is not Brian's only source of information, it is not his only experience.
It is my opinion that if you were to Teach TGM, you would teach the yellow book, you would teach according to 12-5 and you would teach 12-1 and 12-2. To me and I think I stated in that thread you are talking about, is to teach TGM is to teach the yellow book. To teach golf, fix golfers of all swing patterns/strokes, etc. I think you use TGM as a knowledge source to be able take one and all and have success.
All the AIs who teach, teach IMO their own golf instruction and as they have success they should be given credit that is do to them. Homer as I understand it wanted AIs to learn TGM and then teach golf based on their knowledge. I think Homer even suggested several times in the book that the average golfer should seek out an AI rather than attempt to use the yellow book as a DIY.
To me it does a disservice to all those AI who have learned TGM, did their own research, work with 1000's of swings to say they teach TGM. TGM is great source of knowledge, but it is not the end, I think the successful instructors take that knowledge and develop THEIR golf instruction, method and styles, just like every golf has his/her own golf stroke.
I guess the question is at what point does Brian get credit for the Manzella Matrix or will it or should it always be considered TGM?
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
What you describe is every AI.
RickPinewild
New
TGM Swing
No! my question is, does anyone know of a player that I can follow at the qualifier that studies and practices and thinks about golf the same way that I do. A TGM person! I was looking for a NAME. Actually one person PM'd me with the name of Elliott Gealy. Thank You
Turned into a real good thread....
Thanks Rick(PineWild)....
I guess all that should "answer your question"??
No! my question is, does anyone know of a player that I can follow at the qualifier that studies and practices and thinks about golf the same way that I do. A TGM person! I was looking for a NAME. Actually one person PM'd me with the name of Elliott Gealy. Thank You
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