Is there a "TGM Swing"?

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Martee

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glcoach said:
What you describe is every AI.
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Yeah and I have been or thought I was saying that these guys should be given the credit, but it seems there is a group that always want to hear them say in is TGM, give all the credit to TGM.

Somehow for examlpe I think Manzella has his own stuff, and the credit goes to him, else every book he has read, every instructor he has studied, etc. get the credit and he gets???

I wouldn't go to Manzella to learn TGM, but I would go to Manzella to fix my golf stroke, re-engineer it, etc. When all was said and done, I would have been Manzella trained.

Now I did rely very much on Ben Doyle's tape to learn TGM but then Dolye teaches his own stuff to students. I think to learn TGM you go to Joe Daniels who teach TGM certification.

I have probably ramble enough..
 
M

mcflog

New
RickPinewild said:
No! my question is, does anyone know of a player that I can follow at the qualifier that studies and practices and thinks about golf the same way that I do. A TGM person! I was looking for a NAME. Actually one person PM'd me with the name of Elliott Gealy. Thank You
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I've seen that name before. I believe he's a Nationwide Tour player that has worked with NAT. Which without starting this entire thread over does not make him a TGM person. Lots of players with by the book imperatives have never even heard of the book. I don't see how a book with the number of components and variations that TGM has can have A swing.

And just cause a set of variations and components fit one player doesn't mean it will fit another. I think it is much better to watch a player who has similar physical characteristics that are similar to ones self rather than watching a player just because they have been exposed to a particular type of instructor. Not picking on you because I understand what you're after. JMO
 
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Robbohank

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I personally tend to pay more attention to those touring professionals who are known to have or to be working with an AI (or with someone who includes TGM in his/her pedigree). You don't need to be a golf instruction "insider" to know that instructing a touring pro (preferably a successful one) provides a certain level of "validation" to the instructor. That in turn validates some of that instructor's source of information. I don't care if it's a Manzella/Toms association, or a Plumber-Bennet/Badds association..... the entrusting of a golf professional's swing to the "guidance" of a certain teacher certainly says something about the instructor's ability. (And I'm not saying that is the ONLY vehicle for validation of a teacher... but it is one).

I tire of this "oh those touring pro's, they're just naturals who were born to play at that level" theory crap. These guys do a lot of things right for whatever reason.... and I want someone to tell me what and how. Then let ME figure out if I can be as "natural" as they are. I think TGM explains a LOT about what they do right (and they don't all do it ONE way). As such I like seeing TGM get SOME of the credit.

Robbo
 
L

Leek

New
Robbohank said:
I personally tend to pay more attention to those touring professionals who are known to have or to be working with an AI (or with someone who includes TGM in his/her pedigree). You don't need to be a golf instruction "insider" to know that instructing a touring pro (preferably a successful one) provides a certain level of "validation" to the instructor. That in turn validates some of that instructor's source of information. I don't care if it's a Manzella/Toms association, or a Plumber-Bennet/Badds association..... the entrusting of a golf professional's swing to the "guidance" of a certain teacher certainly says something about the instructor's ability. (And I'm not saying that is the ONLY vehicle for validation of a teacher... but it is one).

I tire of this "oh those touring pro's, they're just naturals who were born to play at that level" theory crap. These guys do a lot of things right for whatever reason.... and I want someone to tell me what and how. Then let ME figure out if I can be as "natural" as they are. I think TGM explains a LOT about what they do right (and they don't all do it ONE way). As such I like seeing TGM get SOME of the credit.

Robbo
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On the other hand, a number of very good TOUR pros have had their careers destroyed by some very big name teachers. and those teachers got fame and validation for teaching some of the best- when in fact they ruined them.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Martee said:
Yeah and I have been or thought I was saying that these guys should be given the credit, but it seems there is a group that always want to hear them say in is TGM, give all the credit to TGM.

Somehow for examlpe I think Manzella has his own stuff, and the credit goes to him, else every book he has read, every instructor he has studied, etc. get the credit and he gets???

I wouldn't go to Manzella to learn TGM, but I would go to Manzella to fix my golf stroke, re-engineer it, etc. When all was said and done, I would have been Manzella trained.

Now I did rely very much on Ben Doyle's tape to learn TGM but then Dolye teaches his own stuff to students. I think to learn TGM you go to Joe Daniels who teach TGM certification.

I have probably ramble enough..
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I see your point but i have learned BOTH TGM and how to fix students "Manzella Style." Brian has a GSED, worked hard to get it and knows the book. If i went to brian and said, heres $XXX i want you to explain to me this, this, and this in the book. He could.

Now is this what he does normally? No but he can if you want him too.
 
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Robbohank

New
Leek said:
On the other hand, a number of very good TOUR pros have had their careers destroyed by some very big name teachers. and those teachers got fame and validation for teaching some of the best- when in fact they ruined them.
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Perhaps.... although I wish some of these guys would come out and confess just who destroyed their career. I don't understand what they have to lose by going on the record that "so-and-so's instruction took me off the tour". They CERTAINLY can't feel like they owe that instructor anything!! Instead, it seems that we only hear about those stories from a "friend of a friend".

I guess I just have a certain level of confidence (and it's pretty high) in those who have a strong TGM "base" in their instruction. As such I don't think they do it with smoke and mirrors. Certainly some "name instructors" may have gotten that "name" by pulling the wool over some eyes. All the more reason I like to pull for those associated with TGM.

Robbo
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Boy this thread went sideways.

First of all,

I apologize to RickPInewild who wanted to watch a "TGM" player.

I could have given you a couple I have worked with very recently who are playing in two different tournaments this week. I didn't, becuase this is really not the place for cheerleading BEFORE the effect. I love working with good players, but I don't need to "brag" about them, take silly pictures of them and myself on the range at an event, or any such nonsense.

I understand why you want to watch a TGMer, but everyone knows who works with who, so pull for the player of your choice.

Now, when you could LOOK at a player, and TELL FROM LOOKING that they worked with ME, then I would have offerred them up as "Manzella Models."

As I have grown and improved as a teacher, frankly—in my opinion—distancing myself from teachers who "CREATE" momuments to their teaching by INJECTING a certain PATTERN or set of components on their students, ala Haney/Leadbetter etc, you could NOT HAVE ANY CLUE who I worked with from looking at them. I offer three examples of players I have worked with in the last couple of weeks, that played or are playing in tournaments this week:

Player A: Fairly erect posture with TTW/MB Hand position. Shifts from the Turned Shoulder Plane to the Squared Shoulder Plane on the backstoke and swings down the Turned Shoulder Plane on the downstroke, then through on the elbow plane. He has a PBTS Pivot Center with a FLAT Shoulder Turn and a Random Release.

Player B: More bent posture with TTZ/SF Hand position. Shifts from the Elbow Plane to the ROTATED Turned Shoulder Plane on the backstoke and swings down the FLAT Turned Shoulder Plane on the downstroke, then through on the elbow plane. He has a PBTS Pivot Center with a ROTATED Shoulder Turn and a Random Release.

Player C: Less bent posture with TTW/MB Hand position. Shifts from the Elbow Plane to the Turned Shoulder Plane on the backstoke and back to the Elbow Plane on the downstroke (A double-shift), then through on the Turned shoulder Plane. He has a PBTS Pivot Center with a FLAT Shoulder Turn and a SNAP Release.

and of course, my star girl pupil who is idle this week...

Player D: Less bent posture with TTZ/SF Hand position. Shifts from the Elbow Plane to the Turned Shoulder Plane and on the backstoke and swings down the Turned Shoulder Plane on the downstroke, then through on the Turned Shoulder Plane. She has a PBTS Pivot Center with a FLAT Shoulder Turn and a SWEEP Release.

See?

As far as Martee's comments, I think he is on to something IF YOU BUY INTO THE MARKETED IDEA THAT THE GOLFING MACHINE IS A HOW-TO MANUAL.

Personally, I don't believe this is the real value of the book, or even what Mr. Kelley wanted for all his instructors.

This is why this site, and my Academy and videos and upcoming books, will ALWAYS BE A PLACE that golfers and golf instructors visit to LEARN TO UNDERSTAND AND UTILIZE THE CONCEPTS in the book.

No matter what anyone else might hope for.

"Manzella makes sense out of The Golfing Machine" —Most visitors of this site​
 
B

blehnhard

New
Hey Brian - having a 'senior moment' today. What do the abbrevs stand for?
TTW/MB, TTZ/SF, and PBTS? Think I figured out that the MB is 'mid-body'.

If this is 'secret' Manzella Matrix stuff, I understand.

Looking forward to seeing you in Baltimore in a few weeks.

Bruce
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
RickPinewild said:
No! my question is, does anyone know of a player that I can follow at the qualifier that studies and practices and thinks about golf the same way that I do. A TGM person! I was looking for a NAME. Actually one person PM'd me with the name of Elliott Gealy. Thank You
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Ahhhhhhh......okokok well that makes perfect sense.

I know Elk(ington) is into it....to what degree I dunno. There surely are more........some are prolly more "secretive".......maybe others in here will be able to tell you.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
blehnhard said:
Hey Brian - having a 'senior moment' today. What do the abbrevs stand for?
TTW/MB, TTZ/SF, and PBTS? Think I figured out that the MB is 'mid-body'.

If this is 'secret' Manzella Matrix stuff, I understand.

Looking forward to seeing you in Baltimore in a few weeks.

Bruce
Click to expand...

MB = Mid-body
PBTS = Point between the shoulders
TTW=?
TTZ=?
SF=?

That's what i can get.
 
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