It's Math Anyway (with a Brian Manzella video)

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Brian Manzella

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MJ STRONG (in red) — Brian Manzella (in blue)

Clubhead Speed: 90mph 88.4mph
Vertical Plane: 63.0° 56.0°
Horizontal Plane (swing direction): 8.5°R 6.5°R
Vertical Path/Angle of Attack: -1.0° -1.7°
Horizontal (resultant) Path: 8.0°R 7.6°R
Vertical Face/Dynamic Loft: +26.0° +18.2°
Horizontal (club) Face: 1.5°L 1.7R
Vertical Launch: 20.0° 14.1°
Horizontal Launch: 0.0° (at target)
Vertical Differential: 27.0°
Horizontal Differential: 9.5°
3D Spin Loft: 28.5° 19.9°
Ball Speed: 118mph 117.5mph
Spin Rate: 6500rpm 4758rpm
Apex: 100 feet 82 feet
Face Contact: 0.25” towards Heel toward heel
Resulting Spin Axis: 15.0°L 14.1°L

Ball sure goes short below sea level in the cold side wind/into slightly!

Yuck.
 
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wulsy

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Thanks Brian (and mj also).

Interesting that the resultant path and face (therefore spin axis) is very similar in both "models" (to be expected of course).

The major discrepancies are visible in the lower traj and the lower spin rate (DL 26 vs 18.2, VL 20 vs 14.1, SL 28.5 vs 19.9, SP 6500 vs 4578, Apex 100 vs 82)

Big difference in the VSP. How would this effect the shot and the numbers? In particular is 63*VSP and 8.5*R an "unusual" combination? I'm thinking 90*VSP cannot be combined with inside path, right? So the more "vertical" the VSP is then the more unlikely a rightwards path, no?

Again thanks for takin the time....
 
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savydan

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No, VSP and HSP (swing direction) are completely independent.

VSP is the plane angle up from the ground. HSP is the base of the plane from the target line.

You could stand massively closed to the target line, swing into the houses on the right, have a steep VSP and a very rigthward (positive) HSP.
 
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wulsy

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oops, thanks savy. I wrote that whilst drinking my first coffee of the day. Wasn't fully awake and suffering from a cold bug here in the barren north.; I was assuming when I wrote that nonsense that the player and LM were aligned in the same direction. And if they were, would my point have any validity?

However (three coffees drank now), this makes me think about the incredible significance of the alignment of the LM. How do the LM experts get round this potential minefield?
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
wulsy said:
oops, thanks savy. I wrote that whilst drinking my first coffee of the day. Wasn't fully awake and suffering from a cold bug here in the barren north.; I was assuming when I wrote that nonsense that the player and LM were aligned in the same direction. And if they were, would my point have any validity?

However (three coffees drank now), this makes me think about the incredible significance of the alignment of the LM. How do the LM experts get round this potential minefield?
Click to expand...

Not sure what the problem is. You just aim it at a target and tell the user what the target is.
 
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wulsy

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Yep, I knew you had Brian. What did it feel like to you? Massively inside, I presume? What did you have to exaggerate (relative to your zeroed out move) to hit it? In other words, how did you go about "creating" that ugly thing?
 
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wulsy

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I know where you're coming from Kevin: you mean that the alignment of the body is irrelevant in as much as it is only really being used to influence the resultant path at the end of the day, no?
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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My responses in red below...

wulsy said:
Thanks Brian (and mj also).

Interesting that the resultant path and face (therefore spin axis) is very similar in both "models" (to be expected of course).

The major discrepancies are visible in the lower traj and the lower spin rate (DL 26 vs 18.2, VL 20 vs 14.1, SL 28.5 vs 19.9, SP 6500 vs 4578, Apex 100 vs 82)

You described the proposed ball flight to be "high." Really, the 8 extra degrees of Dynamic Loft is the only club difference you listed, the others are just a result of that (higher launch, more spin, higher apex).

Big difference in the VSP. How would this effect the shot and the numbers?

The VSP and HSP do not affect ball flight at all, per se (ie The golf ball doesn't know what VSP/HSP it was hit with, just Club Speed, Face, Path, and contact location), but can "tend" to affect (or be a result of) club behaviour.

In particular is 63*VSP and 8.5*R an "unusual" combination? I'm thinking 90*VSP cannot be combined with inside path, right? So the more "vertical" the VSP is then the more unlikely a rightwards path, no?

I threw the 63 degree VSP in there because it's fairly close to a standard lie angle for an 8 iron, but perhaps a tad upright. Savydan's already cleared up the VSP/rightward bit, but...the higher the VSP, the less right the Path will be relative to the HSP, given a downward AoA. So, I see what you were getting at.

Again thanks for takin the time....
Click to expand...
 
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wulsy

New
mjstrong:"I threw the 63 degree VSP in there because it's fairly close to a standard lie angle for an 8 iron, but perhaps a tad upright. Savydan's already cleared up the VSP/rightward bit, but...the higher the VSP, the less right the Path will be relative to the HSP, given a downward AoA. So, I see what you were getting at."

Yep, that's pretty much what I was getting at.

But here is my real point: is swinging right and left a function of the VSP?
 
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