kinetic energy and speed

[shootin4par]

Untill this past week my thought was that clubhead speed is the determining factor in distance but now I am questioning it a little. So it is possible that someone produces more kinetic energy and less clubhead speed that they hit the ball longer then someone with more clubhead speed. Can you set me straight on this, I am all ears mandrin

 

[RicoSuave]

kinetic energy is defined by mass and velocity:
T=0,5 . m .v^2

So you are right, when someone is swingng a heavier clubhead
with less speed it could equal one with highspeed-light-head.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Untill this past week my thought was that clubhead speed is the determining factor in distance but now I am questioning it a little. So it is possible that someone produces more kinetic energy and less clubhead speed that they hit the ball longer then someone with more clubhead speed. Can you set me straight on this, I am all ears mandrin

Yup, it's all about SMASH FACTOR. How much ball speed you can produce for a given swing speed.

The better the designed club and the better your swing the better your smash factor and the higher the ball speed. With all launch conditions being equal, you could in fact swing slower and product higher ball speeds.

Example:

96mph swing speed x 1.5 smash factor = 144mph of ball speed
100mph swing speed x 1.4 smash factor = 140mph of ball speed

 

[puttmad]

...

kinetic energy is defined by mass and velocity:
T=0,5 . m .v^2

So you are right, when someone is swingng a heavier clubhead
with less speed it could equal one with highspeed-light-head.

So if you double the mass, you double the kinetic energy, or double the velocity and get 4 times as much.

So how much real golf ball distance would be gained by just doubling the kinetic energy in your golf swing?....

 

[puttmad]

Jim,
Didn't Mandarin already disprove the "effective mass" or "smash factor" in a previous thread?....

 

[RicoSuave]

So if you double the mass, you double the kinetic energy, or double the velocity and get 4 times as much.

So how much real golf ball distance would be gained by just doubling the kinetic energy in your golf swing?....

for me to hard to answer,but this
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7554
is the thread, where mandrin shows the conservation of momentum
and conservation of kinetic energy.

 

[mb6606]

Not sure how the smash factor works but there is the low spin, high launch factor (Including less side spin).
My ball speed maxes out at 143 but with the right launch conditions
the Vector launch monitor results are over 270 yds.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim,
Didn't Mandarin already disprove the "effective mass" or "smash factor" in a previous thread?....

Smash factor is simply a function of of swing speed to ball speed. Many things effect smash factor such as:

- Where you hit it on the face (trampoline effect). More times than not, a slower swing allows more people to hit the best part of the clubface for maximum energy transfer. I see a lot of monitors where people end up swinging faster but because the contact wasn't as good, the ball speed is lower

I am not relating this to "sustaining the line of compression."

Hope that clarifies a bit.

 

[birdie_man]

Ya I've wondered this before too....

Cause I've heard of a guy who can consistently get 1.6-something....I think that was it. (w/e the number was it seemed that it was much higher than most better players and the highest they've seen)

Dunno for sure....but it was on Bombsquadgolf......and I dunno if they tested him with different drivers and such....

 

[puttmad]

...

Smash factor is simply a function of of swing speed to ball speed. Many things effect smash factor such as:

- Where you hit it on the face (trampoline effect). More times than not, a slower swing allows more people to hit the best part of the clubface for maximum energy transfer. I see a lot of monitors where people end up swinging faster but because the contact wasn't as good, the ball speed is lower

I am not relating this to "sustaining the line of compression."

Hope that clarifies a bit.

OK..

 

[mandrin]

Ya I've wondered this before too....

Cause I've heard of a guy who can consistently get 1.6-something....I think that was it. (w/e the number was it seemed that it was much higher than most better players and the highest they've seen)

Dunno for sure....but it was on Bombsquadgolf......and I dunno if they tested him with different drivers and such....

birdie_man,

The standard mass values for driver clubhead and ball are respectively 200 g and 45.7 g. The USGA legal limit for the coefficient of restitution is 0.83. From these figures it follows that the smashfactor can’t exceed 1.49.

The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews, Scotland - which governs play for golfers everywhere outside the U.S., Canada and Mexico, allows CORs of up to 0.86. This would than give outside North America a maximum smashfactor of 1.51

In both cases we are very far from your smashfactor of 1.6 and it can’t be obtained with a ‘legal’ club either here or anywhere else. A smasfactor of 1.6 would require an extremely high COR of 0.97.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

birdie_man,

The standard mass values for driver clubhead and ball are respectively 200 g and 45.7 g. The USGA legal limit for the coefficient of restitution is 0.83. From these figures it follows that the smashfactor can’t exceed 1.49.

The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews, Scotland - which governs play for golfers everywhere outside the U.S., Canada and Mexico, allows CORs of up to 0.86. This would than give outside North America a maximum smashfactor of 1.51

In both cases we are very far from your smashfactor of 1.6 and it can’t be obtained with a ‘legal’ club either here or anywhere else. A smasfactor of 1.6 would require an extremely high COR of 0.97.

Mandrin this is possible but you have to remember that some monitors CALCULATE either swing speed or ball speed and thus if the calculation is "off" the smash factor can/will be higher.

 

[shootin4par]

Mandrin this is possible but you have to remember that some monitors CALCULATE either swing speed or ball speed and thus if the calculation is "off" the smash factor can/will be higher.

and you buy the club

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin this is possible but you have to remember that some monitors CALCULATE either swing speed or ball speed and thus if the calculation is "off" the smash factor can/will be higher.

Jim,

It is interesting that you mention that if the calculation is "off" the smash factor can/will be higher and not the other way around.

 

[puttmad]

So how much real golf ball distance would be gained by just doubling the kinetic energy in your golf swing?....

So anyone have the answer to this one then?....

 

[mondeoclub]

birdie_man,

The standard mass values for driver clubhead and ball are respectively 200 g and 45.7 g. The USGA legal limit for the coefficient of restitution is 0.83. From these figures it follows that the smashfactor can’t exceed 1.49.

Does the ball play a part in the smash factor?
I believe the smash factor calculated is higher for centered hit than off-center hit.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The Smash Factor

This whole "Brian Manzella blows up the theory of the heavy hit, hitting and swinging, cliubs that stay up the left arm, why certain hits FEEL HEAVIER, etc.", which could have NEVER occured if Mandrin, Robert Grober, Aaaron Zick, etc wouldn't have done the math, IS the smash hit factor come to roost.

If you have forward lean, a "timed shaft kick," a cnetered hit, a good ball, and a hot face, you will have the MAXIMUM SHF POSSIBLE FOR YOU.

 

[sandpacker]

Heavy Club

Stated another way, do heavy clubs hit the ball further?

It seems to me, a (relatively) heavy club would "swing" more truly than a lighter club.

 

[Biffer]

Smash Factor

mandrin,

According to Zelocity PureLaunch operating manual,
Smash factor (Power Transfer Ratio) is Ball Speed/Clubhead Speed x 100%.

The PureLaunch individually measures both the ball speed and clubhead speed by doppler radar.

Are you talking about the same thing?

 

[mandrin]

100%

Smash factor is Ball Speed/Clubhead Speed x 100%.

Are you talking about the same thing?

Biffer,

Yes, if you leave out the ‘100%’. Smash factor is simply the ratio ball speed/clubhead speed. Clubhead measured just prior to impact and ball speed taken at separation.