Kuchar's swing

[rogerdodger]

Anybody watch the turning stone event? This guy swings so flat it is amazing. Is there anyone who swings on a flatter plane on tour? Also, he really changed his swing from his amateur days. Why would you make the swing so flat? Not an indictment of it, he won and is in the top fifty money winners on tour, just curious why you would change the swing to so flat an action for a tall guy? I was rooting for Taylor, liked his swing since Brian posted it here, but the flat one won.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Flat Swings and Leftward Top-of-the-Backswing Pivots

Kuchar's swing is flatter than orthodox at the top (below the turned Shoulder Plane).

So, this makes him LESS able to use the force from his right shoulder to power the arms and clubhead.

So what?

He make a very standard pivot--tilt wise, but does so with the LOCATION of his torso at the top pretty far to the left.

So, this makes his less able to do a good "RUN UP" before his "JUMP," which makes his pivot rotation less able to generate maximum speed.

So what?

A really tall guy swinging on a flatter plane has the club in basically the same location to the ball at the top of the swing, as a shorter guy on a more orthodox plane.

So what?

If you can generate enough speed, and get the club drawing a good line, and you can control the D-Plane, and to do it you need to swing like Kuchar, go right ahead.

I gave two lessons this year to folks who are "Stack & Tilters" and I fixed 'em up really good using that pattern.

So what?

I wonder if they'd fix a "Never Hook Againer" who needed help, with the NHA2 pattern?

Don't put the Stallion in a box, folks.

 

[ssssc]

where are all the other post that were in this thread?

 

[Brian Manzella]

where are all the other post that were in this thread?

I thought they didn't do anything for the topic.

So, they went buh-bye.

 

[rogerdodger]

Thanks Brian, answered the question square on as usual. I doubt you could ever be boxed in, that is why we are here.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Thanks Brian, answered the question square on as usual. I doubt you could ever be boxed in, that is why we are here.

Thanks for the nice words.

Folks see me take things down from this forum, and think I am trying to keep good information hidden from my forum attendees.

Baloney!

I will debate anyone on anything, anytime, anywhere, and I'll take the other side of the argument just to make it fair.

I do try to stay away from cultists of any kind though...

 

[roll - gybe]

Guess my post about the handpath and the selected plane was not relevant. Why wouldn't that be related to the appearence of steepness or flatness?

 

[Clearwater]

Kuchar's swing is flatter than orthodox at the top (below the turned Shoulder Plane).

So, this makes him LESS able to use the force from his right shoulder to power the arms and clubhead.

So what?

He make a very standard pivot--tilt wise, but does so with the LOCATION of his torso at the top pretty far to the left.

So, this makes his less able to do a good "RUN UP" before his "JUMP," which makes his pivot rotation less able to generate maximum speed.

So what?

A really tall guy swinging on a flatter plane has the club in basically the same location to the ball at the top of the swing, as a shorter guy on a more orthodox plane.

So what?

If you can generate enough speed, and get the club drawing a good line, and you can control the D-Plane, and to do it you need to swing like Kuchar, go right ahead.

I gave two lessons this year to folks who are "Stack & Tilters" and I fixed 'em up really good using that pattern.

So what?

I wonder if they'd fix a "Never Hook Againer" who needed help, with the NHA2 pattern?

Don't put the Stallion in a box, folks.

Kuchar has a great backswing. The downswing needs some work. He doesn't always know how his hips should work, and he would be confused if you mentioned flying wedge or the equivalent to him.

Thanks for fixing up the "Stack & Tilters" this year. You asked a question about the "Never Hook Againer" who needed help, and if we would use the NHA2 pattern to fix him. I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, but the answer would be no.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Rhetorical Stuff!

You asked a question about the "Never Hook Againer" who needed help, and if we would use the NHA2 pattern to fix him. I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, but the answer would be no.

It was a rhetorical question.

That's the point. For what I am trying to do with my career, I need to be able to fix ANYONE, using ANY workable pattern.

Because, I want to be the best that ever lived, and you can't be a "I only teach my stuff" teacher, and even be in the discussion.

So, not trying to be disrespectful at all, but that's the name of that tune.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Anybody watch the turning stone event? This guy swings so flat it is amazing. Is there anyone who swings on a flatter plane on tour? Also, he really changed his swing from his amateur days. Why would you make the swing so flat? Not an indictment of it, he won and is in the top fifty money winners on tour, just curious why you would change the swing to so flat an action for a tall guy?

I'm 6'3" tall and switched to a much flatter swing and had much more success with it. I think part of it was since my downswing is on the TSP, I felt more comfortably going with a flatter swing in order to prevent the OTT move. I have a tendency to struggle with coming OTT and steering (still do) a more upright swing gave me more problems. I also use angled hinging and I was re-reading some of TGM and Homer Kelley mentioned to the effect that upright swings that use angled hinging tend to take the characteristics of a vertical hinge and on a flatter plane they tend to take the characteristics of a horizontal hinge. I thought that was interesting.




YAKUZA

 

[Dariusz J.]

When the plane is perpendicular to the spine angle it's never "flat". I find it VERY ridiculous to call these motions FLAT. FYI, one of the most imprtant rules of biomechanics is to keep the distal limbs (arms) on the corresponding spine angle plane in order to limit the timing issues which an armsy swing motion is known of.

Cheers

 

[mgranato]

When the plane is perpendicular to the spine angle it's never "flat". I find it VERY ridiculous to call these motions FLAT. FYI, one of the most imprtant rules of biomechanics is to keep the distal limbs (arms) on the corresponding spine angle plane in order to limit the timing issues which an armsy swing motion is known of.

Cheers

What part of the spine? What part of the arms? And at what part of the swing?

 

[Dariusz J.]

1) thoracic - i.e. where the shoulder joints are located in relation to the spine.

2) all parts in theory - knowing that the elbow joints cannot move in all directions (i.e. bend backwards) lets say the line linking the shoulder joint and the wrist of the rear arm; it requires the elbow plane to be achieved as early as possible with the rear forearm perpendicular to the spine at impact with the shaft plane in-line with the forearm; unless one is like Moe and can swing on the EP being simutaneously on the TSP...LOL;

3) the whole swing motion either by humerus or by forearm of the rear body part in the sagittal plane; why either humerus/forearm ? because of the fact the elbow joint is imperfect (not like Pingman...LOL).

Cheers

 

[Robbohank]

Kuchar's swing is flatter than orthodox at the top (below the turned Shoulder Plane).

So, this makes him LESS able to use the force from his right shoulder to power the arms and clubhead.

So what?

He make a very standard pivot--tilt wise, but does so with the LOCATION of his torso at the top pretty far to the left.

So, this makes his less able to do a good "RUN UP" before his "JUMP," which makes his pivot rotation less able to generate maximum speed.

So what?

A really tall guy swinging on a flatter plane has the club in basically the same location to the ball at the top of the swing, as a shorter guy on a more orthodox plane.

So what?

If you can generate enough speed, and get the club drawing a good line, and you can control the D-Plane, and to do it you need to swing like Kuchar, go right ahead.

I gave two lessons this year to folks who are "Stack & Tilters" and I fixed 'em up really good using that pattern.

So what?

I wonder if they'd fix a "Never Hook Againer" who needed help, with the NHA2 pattern?

Don't put the Stallion in a box, folks.

Seems like I saw a TGC stat this week that said his clubhead speed is something like 3 to 4 mph faster NOW than it was in 07. I assume this is a result of going to his current motion, but who knows for sure.

Not that your saying he had maxed out with his "old swing", but you sure don't imply that he'll be any faster with his current action.

 

[jeffy]

Seems like I saw a TGC stat this week that said his clubhead speed is something like 3 to 4 mph faster NOW than it was in 07. I assume this is a result of going to his current motion, but who knows for sure.

Not that your saying he had maxed out with his "old swing", but you sure don't imply that he'll be any faster with his current action.

Kuchar's teacher has been blogging on another site. Apparently, Matt had adopted this backswing before they met in 2006, and the two hit if off because his coach didn't try to change it. They spend 80% of their time on the downswing. In the backswing, they mostly work on steepening the shoulders and loading the right glute. In fact, his arms are less flat (relative to horizontal) than some "picture" swingers, like Jonathon Byrd.

 

[Parker Parsons]

Actually Kuchars' hot putter mainly won him the tournament - he putted lights out (1st in putts per GIR 1.6 and 3rd in total putts) which usually is the difference with all the great ball striker week to week. He had 20 birdies and an eagle for the week.

 

[birdie_man]

When the plane is perpendicular to the spine angle it's never "flat". I find it VERY ridiculous to call these motions FLAT. FYI, one of the most imprtant rules of biomechanics is to keep the distal limbs (arms) on the corresponding spine angle plane in order to limit the timing issues which an armsy swing motion is known of.

Cheers

Dariusz one can overdo almost anything, no?

You have never seen a too flat backswing?

Perpendicular to and intersecting my tailbone?

Extreme example but yikes...good luck getting to a good top of Bs and finding the Tsp.

Yes...?