Lag Pressure Talk

[Ringer]

While doing one of my usual "sit down and think" sessions I started to think about lag.

Why would Homer say that Lag was the secret to success?

After hours of consideration (yes, hours) I came to realize one MAJOR misunderstanding. Lag is NOT about speed. It's about accelleration.

Accelleration is a change in velocity... and velocity is both speed AND DIRECTION.

Which all basically means Lag creates a rapid change of direction, and thus accelleration.

Accelleration is the key to maintaining the speed that the clubhead achieves upon the balls seperation from the clubface.

This may seem like a small, somewhat insugnificant thing to most of you... but to me this seemed rather profound.

 

[mjstrong]

Which all basically means Lag creates a rapid change of direction, and thus accelleration.

You could say that lag is caused by a rapid change of direction...

 

[Ringer]

You could say that lag is caused by a rapid change of direction...

Agreed.. accelleration of the arms keeps the club from going to an "in line" condition straight out in front of you. But then after the accelleration of the arms is no more the club whips around.

The later you are able to maintain the lag into the forward swing, the more the club will rapidly change direction via release.

So just simply accellerating the arms will cause this cascade effect... and to take it one step further... wallop the ball with your pivot.

 

[DOCW3]

"Lag creates"

You might want to assess the use of "creates."

While doing one of my usual "sit down and think" sessions I started to think about lag.

Why would Homer say that Lag was the secret to success?

After hours of consideration (yes, hours) I came to realize one MAJOR misunderstanding. Lag is NOT about speed. It's about accelleration.

Accelleration is a change in velocity... and velocity is both speed AND DIRECTION.

Which all basically means Lag creates a rapid change of direction, and thus accelleration.

Accelleration is the key to maintaining the speed that the clubhead achieves upon the balls seperation from the clubface.

This may seem like a small, somewhat insugnificant thing to most of you... but to me this seemed rather profound.

 

[Toolish]

Does lag really create anything? I have always thought of it as more of a result of other things.

 

[mandrin]

While doing one of my usual "sit down and think" sessions I started to think about lag.

Why would Homer say that Lag was the secret to success?

After hours of consideration (yes, hours) I came to realize one MAJOR misunderstanding. Lag is NOT about speed. It's about accelleration.

Accelleration is a change in velocity... and velocity is both speed AND DIRECTION.

Which all basically means Lag creates a rapid change of direction, and thus accelleration.

Accelleration is the key to maintaining the speed that the clubhead achieves upon the balls seperation from the clubface.

This may seem like a small, somewhat insugnificant thing to most of you... but to me this seemed rather profound.

Ringer,

TGMers typically believe that “Hand Speed is set up with the downstroke shoulder turn and remains at a constant MPH and RPM after initial acceleration. The endless belt.”
So, seemingly no acceleration to maintain lag?

“Which all basically means Lag creates a rapid change of direction, and thus acceleration”.
Lag is not cause but effect.

 

[Ringer]

I get that my precision is lacking.

I suppose it would be best to sum up the idea by saying:

The sustaining of lag late into the downstroke ensures a rapid change of direction during the impact interval. That rapid change is considered acceleration since acceleration is altering either an objects speed or direction.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I get that my precision is lacking.

I suppose it would be best to sum up the idea by saying:

The sustaining of lag late into the downstroke ensures a rapid change of direction during the impact interval. That rapid change is considered acceleration since acceleration is altering either an objects speed or direction.

I'm gonna have to disagree, as i posted on another website:

Trigger delay is a function of a few things:

1) Being on plane
2) axis tilt
3) right shoulder on plane
4) being on the elbow plane helps

Give me a minute to find Brian's free video he did on Maximum Trigger Delay which goes into a bit more detail.

Edit:

I have the video if someone can host it...it's about 24mb

 

[daniell]

Hi Mandrin,

Do you mean to say that the hands, or specificall #3 PP, must always be accelerating for the lag to be sustained? It seems logical to me.

cheers,

daniel

 

[tongzilla]

Ringer,

TGMers typically believe that “Hand Speed is set up with the downstroke shoulder turn and remains at a constant MPH and RPM after initial acceleration. The endless belt.”
So, seemingly no acceleration to maintain lag?

“Which all basically means Lag creates a rapid change of direction, and thus acceleration”.
Lag is not cause but effect.

The Endless Belt effect in The Golfing Machine is only supposed to illustrate one concept - that the club can speed up during the angular portion of the belt. It does not mean the hands are not supposed to accelerate in a real swing.

 

[mandrin]

The Endless Belt effect in The Golfing Machine is only supposed to illustrate one concept - that the club can speed up during the angular portion of the belt. It does not mean the hands are not supposed to accelerate in a real swing.

“Hand Speed is set up with the downstroke shoulder turn and remains at a constant MPH and RPM after initial acceleration. The endless belt.”

Copy/pasted from a forum busy conserving the purity of TGM. It does not match your interpretation.

 

[mb6606]

Isn't lag maintaining the stress on the club shaft? This has the effect of transferring your maximum mass into impact. The picture of Dianne with the parachute attached to the clubhead.

 

[kimhhans]

During release

“Hand Speed is set up with the downstroke shoulder turn and remains at a constant MPH and RPM after initial acceleration. The endless belt.”

Copy/pasted from a forum busy conserving the purity of TGM. It does not match your interpretation.

I guess one will find many descriptions of this, here is another :
The Endless Belt Effect (2-K) describes the increase in Clubhead Surface Speed with no increase in Hand Speed (Belt Speed) during Release

The point beeing that one should not temp to increase the hand speed during release, sustain the lag.

Makes sense to me, but I'm no expert.

 

[mandrin]

Hi Mandrin,

Do you mean to say that the hands, or specificall #3 PP, must always be accelerating for the lag to be sustained? It seems logical to me.

cheers,

daniel

daniell,

During the first phase of the downswing club accelerates inwards. This is heavily accented if there is a dynamic transition - inertial recoil.

After only about 0.1 sec into the downswing the club starts to accelerates outwards due to centrifugal torque becoming dominant.

Strictly speaking there is only club head lag during the initial phase when accelerating inwards.

A further complication is the bending and unbending of the shaft all taking place before impact.

What we feel is not quite reliable. However measuring the pressure exerted between forefinger and shaft is very readily measured. Useful as a first quantitative indicator.

Even if this lag business is not quite clear it is nevertheless a typical feature of any good golf swing that the hands are ahead of the clubhead at impact.

 

[Boris]

While doing one of my usual "sit down and think" sessions I started to think about lag.

Why would Homer say that Lag was the secret to success?

After hours of consideration (yes, hours) I came to realize one MAJOR misunderstanding. Lag is NOT about speed. It's about accelleration.

Accelleration is a change in velocity... and velocity is both speed AND DIRECTION.

Which all basically means Lag creates a rapid change of direction, and thus accelleration.

Accelleration is the key to maintaining the speed that the clubhead achieves upon the balls seperation from the clubface.

This may seem like a small, somewhat insugnificant thing to most of you... but to me this seemed rather profound.

YAWN!

Boris

 

[Spike]

Ringer, Mandrin....

Would Thrust be the source? Thrust before acceleration? Acceleration before speed?

The constant/continuous Thrust controls the acceleration of the flying wedges (along with the direction of thrust).....creating Lag?

 

[daniell]

Hi Mandrin,

Thank you very much. I was trying to figure out when during the swing to give the club the *umph*. Your post helps if I understand it correctly. ;-)

Thank you.. thank you .

daniel

 

[Brian Manzella]

Thanks again Mandrin.

Our friend Mandrin, is right again. The Golfing machine is (probably) wrong again. It has many flaws.

Homer was brilliant, but give any brilliant human a brillaint work as a staring point, and they will "go on" from there.

I am not saying I am brilliant, but I ain't no dummy, and neither is Michael Jacobs, Tom Bartlett, and many others who realize—it ain't all in the book.

That's where I—this website—and The Manzella Matrix comes in.

Fixing what is not right, not necessary, not understandable, not useful, not optimum, not scientifically correct.

As far a "lag pressure" goes, if your club is moving through impact where IT needs to, and your hands are where they NEED TO be to have the club do that, and your body is where it needs to be to reach these spots—all you have to do is time the shaft, and snap the kinetic chain.

All the rest is just minutia.

 

[mandrin]

I guess one will find many descriptions of this, here is another :
The Endless Belt Effect (2-K) describes the increase in Clubhead Surface Speed with no increase in Hand Speed (Belt Speed) during Release

The point beeing that one should not temp to increase the hand speed during release, sustain the lag.

Makes sense to me, but I'm no expert.

kimhhans,

The endless belt effect is likely confusing many golfers. It is actually not a very realistic model for the down swing. The operation of the belt is not equivalent to the hand action in the down swing.

It introduces straight line delivery whereas in golf one strictly has curvilinear trajectories. Moreover as soon as the club starts to accelerate outwards the hands will slow down, prior to impact.

What really happens in a golf swing is that, during the downswing, kinetic energy from the arms flows to the club, i.e., arms/hands slow down and club increases its angular speed.

 

[mandrin]

Hi Mandrin,

Thank you very much. I was trying to figure out when during the swing to give the club the *umph*. Your post helps if I understand it correctly. ;-)

Thank you.. thank you .

daniel

daniell,

You better think of delivering the “umph” early on in the downswing to allow the generated kinetic energy by the core elements to be utilized in time and efficiently in the short time span of the downswing.

When you feel that you are still very active just prior to impact for any additional “umph”, it will have, most likely, more “impact” on desirable early hands impact position than on any additional clubhead speed.