Lagging Clubhead Takeaway, Cure for inside takeaway?

[birdie_man]

I almost thought the same thing for a long time, but sometimes the only thing that counts when mental efforts fail is pure stubborness. This is the "holy grail" if you can decipher the secret.

Whaaaaaaaa....?

I always read what u post David....and I'm trying to learn something from your post above (it sounds so mysterious....secret?.....ooooooohhhhh!!).....but...

Whaaaaa???

The benefits of a "lagged" takeaway are seductive...I advise caution, however.

I like doing it....I have found u can overdo it tho. U don't want to be so noodley that ur all sloppy.

 

[Spike]

Where would you say is the source of power for a lagging clubhead takeaway?

I'd like to know if anyone knows this answer.

I'll try it this way.....

Lagging Clubhead Takeaway....

Source of Power?

Source of Direction?

Source of Control?

 

[David Alford]

< I always read what u post David....and I'm trying to learn something from your post above (it sounds so mysterious....secret?.....ooooooohhhhh!!)>

Did Ben Hogan really roll the club, the clubhead, the arms, or the elbows? All or some? Or none?

Or did he, as Bill McKinney seductively and impressively purports, lag the takeaway/backswing?

The solution to this little enigma could be called a "Holy Grail", if not Hogan's "real secret"...

 

[Mick Stup]

Ping Man

I've had quite a bit of success recently with lagging clubhead takeaway as well.
Brian painted a great image in one post of Ping Man swinging the club with it's completely free 'wrists'. I try and re-create that in my takeaway and get a great feeling at the top of loading pp3, then like Ping Man has to, try to keep that pressure there on the downswing with the constant motion of my pivot. I can never get that pp3 feeling any other way.

 

[shortgamer]

< I always read what u post David....and I'm trying to learn something from your post above (it sounds so mysterious....secret?.....ooooooohhhhh!!)>

Did Ben Hogan really roll the club, the clubhead, the arms, or the elbows? All or some? Or none?

Or did he, as Bill McKinney seductively and impressively purports, lag the takeaway/backswing?

The solution to this little enigma could be called a "Holy Grail", if not Hogan's "real secret"...

Float loading?

 

[Brian Manzella]

I'd like to know if anyone knows this answer.

I'll try it this way.....

Lagging Clubhead Takeaway....

Source of Power?

Source of Direction?

Source of Control?

Source of Power? The Pivot.

Source of Direction? The Pivot.

Source of Control? The Hands.

 

[David Alford]

IF you want to lag the clubhead on the takeaway, you have to decide whether you want left hand/left arm control or right hand/right arm. That's how I would do it, although there are other options (which I don't favor) such as just turning the shoulders while the arms/hands lag. Or even turning the hips while the hands/arms lag. Here we have the age old debate: body controlled pivot vs. hands controlled pivot.

I believe Bobby Jones kinda' did it with a lower body shift w/hip turn and he went inside sooner than I would advise & frankly was a bit off plane at that point (already). If I posted a swing like Jones, no doubt critics would be all over me telling me how terrible it is.

Anyway, left hand/left arm controlled lag is more commonly used in a swing, while right hand/right arm controlled lag is more commonly used in a hitting action. But, if you know what you're doing, you can reverse that and no one would even be able to tell.

YOU, however, would perhaps feel a bit schizophrenic (left controlled lag with a right powered hit; or perhaps you would like the duality).

However, these aren't absolutes & I'm just giving some generalities. My feeling is most hitters, don't like a takeaway lag, but I haven't interviewed "most" hitters...(who has?)

Hitters (and swingers), of course can, can pick the lag up during the downswing...this is a big subject as there are various types of lag...

Surely, Homer went into this; but (somewhat purposely) I'm not that familar with what he wrote; I preferred working on the subject myself & have my own views. In other words, I didn't want some else giving me "his" answers.

Still, I would advise having an expert as a guide so you don't waste YEARS. This area of the golf swing is a dismal swampland; as I said, extreme caution is warranted.

For example, one of the problems with takeaway lag action, it's hard to keep soft writst angles precise. But, if you can monitor well, it can work well. It is easiest to accomplish on pitches where the swings are shorter and the angles have less travel.

 

[Spike]

Source of Power? The Pivot.

Source of Direction? The Pivot.

Source of Control? The Hands.

Thank you, Brian, for stepping up to the plate on this one. You know how much your opinion means to me! What do you think of the following?

Totally agree with the power and control sources. But I've found that the source of direction is pivot & hands which help with what David Alford has mentioned in his above post concerning Bobby Jones' inside move.

David described left hand or right hand preferences but I've come to realize that both hands are needed to control the direction through the use of opposing pressure points. This helps to keep the hands and arms in front of the body during the backswing and facilitate extensor action.

I think there are two problems that can occur when dealing with LCT. One is too much speed, the other is letting the clubhead load the arms before the hands. These two conditions can cause severe strain on the wrists.

It really doesn't take much to initiate this kind of move. David is right that you must monitor this move. But, the hands must connect to the pivot or visa versa. When done correctly it is such a small move that it can actually create soft wrist angles.

 

[David Alford]

You have both hands on the club, so use both of 'em. However, I suggest either the left or right hand should be "the general". And for a lag takeaway, most golfers will probably choose the left hand, but one could use the right - particularly a hitter.

 

[TYORKE1]

JIM any videos of your swing? TIM