Late Night Ramblings...NHA, soft draw, etc.

[Kevin Shields]

Birdie,

If you would just actually DO the NHA pattern, you would get fades. You are missing two key components of that pattern. There's a disconnect between what you are actually doing and what you are attempting to do.

1.) You are missing the "Left of the Wall" component
2.) You are missing the "Left thumb UNDER the shaft" at the top.

I would describe your latest swing as "Up the Wall, Down the Wall, and Back Up the Wall". You really need to get that club swinging left of the wall immediately after impact. If you spent 2 minutes on a waist-high plane board, you would get the feel for how far left that clubhead needs to swing.

Get that left thumb under the shaft. Your argument about Lee Trevino hitting fades from a bowed left wrist doesn't hold up because:

1.) Trevino aimed 40 yards left of target and hit block fades
2.) Trevino's forearms were as big as my thighs

NHA is a straight-fade or slight pull-fade pattern. Think more Colin Montgomerie and less Lee Trevino. It's a pattern that works if you match all the components. You are using an "incompatible variation" with that bowed left wrist and square setup.

That bowed left wrist is actually hindering your natural instincts to do the "Left of the Wall" move after impact. If you'd get the left thumb under the shaft at the top, the clubface would be more open. You will probably flare your first few shots way out to the right - off the planet kind of right - but if you stuck with that position at the top, you will instinctively start swinging more left after impact and you just might get NHA to work for you.

I was thinking the same exact thing but i feel feeble when others can express their thoughts this much better than i can. Excellent analysis.

 

[curtisj76]

Quick question: Why did you mention Trevino's forearms? Seriously, I have no idea. Thanks

 

[birdie_man]

Birdie,

If you would just actually DO the NHA pattern, you would get fades. You are missing two key components of that pattern. There's a disconnect between what you are actually doing and what you are attempting to do.

1.) You are missing the "Left of the Wall" component
2.) You are missing the "Left thumb UNDER the shaft" at the top.

I would describe your latest swing as "Up the Wall, Down the Wall, and Back Up the Wall". You really need to get that club swinging left of the wall immediately after impact. If you spent 2 minutes on a waist-high plane board, you would get the feel for how far left that clubhead needs to swing.

Get that left thumb under the shaft. Your argument about Lee Trevino hitting fades from a bowed left wrist doesn't hold up because:

1.) Trevino aimed 40 yards left of target and hit block fades
2.) Trevino's forearms were as big as my thighs

NHA is a straight-fade or slight pull-fade pattern. Think more Colin Montgomerie and less Lee Trevino. It's a pattern that works if you match all the components. You are using an "incompatible variation" with that bowed left wrist and square setup.

That bowed left wrist is actually hindering your natural instincts to do the "Left of the Wall" move after impact. If you'd get the left thumb under the shaft at the top, the clubface would be more open. You will probably flare your first few shots way out to the right - off the planet kind of right - but if you stuck with that position at the top, you will instinctively start swinging more left after impact and you just might get NHA to work for you.

vj buddy...

I've tried the swing left stuff at length already though. I even went to the point where I was overdoing it and would hit shanks and god knows what else.

It did help though but I don't know that there is any water left in that well. I could be wrong. I will try everything anyhow...I will change anything.

And I was open in that shot BTW vj.....I may have had the ball a bit too far back though I can't remember.

Now.....with changing my left wrist............I have tried!! The clubface just really seems too open. Dunno why I cannot get it working like most people. The arch just works it's way in there.

If I do it I am pretty sure I may need a stronger grip and/or a full roll.

I had a 6 iron bent 3 flat a while back and as I wrote about it did have me hitting fades.....and seemed to "free me up" to swing left. (if that makes sense)

My current set is so beat up it isn't even worth bending really so I am shopping for new irons. They don't need to be 3 flat (58 5 iron) but maybe 1 or 2 I think.

Thanks for the input though buddy I appreciate it. I'll keep y'all up 2 date.

Your last 2 paragraphs are particularly interesting. I have tried it just not at any real great length. In other words, if it is gonna work it is gonna TAKE some real work I know that much. (does not sit well at all to change that left wrist) I have tried everything including this.

BTW with y'all (you, Kevin, peckmeister) all thinking the same thing it does make me wonder. If anyone else has ideas feel 100% free to pipe up. I take it all in.

-Paul

P.S. Trevino was a wusssssssssssssss!!!

 

[thefuture37]

if you like having a bowed wrist at impact, why not try to swing like him to hit a fade? Get Johnny Miller's dvd called tricks of the trade. He shows 4 distinct ways how to fade the ball. If you can't fade it with one of those you are hopeless.

 

[birdie_man]

Ya I've tried a Trevino-like motion future. Worked well enough but I don't think it's for me in the long run.

I jumped the gun with this whole thread anyway. I think I basically need to either play a soft draw with this pattern and open the face for a fade (if it doesn't cause me to hit shanks).........or get some dang flatter irons.

I'm gonna probably go out today though and try some things. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[vjcapron]

Quick question: Why did you mention Trevino's forearms? Seriously, I have no idea. Thanks

In golf lore, you need to be "strong as a lumberjack" to play from a bowed left wrist to fight off that closed clubface through impact.

Examples: Trevino, Tom Lehman and former US Senior Open winner Tom Wargo.

 

[vjcapron]

Birdie,

I figured you've tried it all before. Keep working at it. Having a go-to shot that you know is going to move left to right is invaluable, even if 90% of your shots are right-to-left.

You're on the right path with the new sticks. Lie angles as well as offset greatly affect the amount you can move the ball left-to-right. Go for minimal offset in your next set of irons if you want to be able to maneuver the ball left-to-right.

 

[birdie_man]

I think that is a good plan vjc. I will keep working at it.

I guess my deal is...

1. I don't want to have to add all the hip slide to hit a fade. (like in NHA)

2. Anything but arched has not worked for me well at all.

Like I said though I've never been afraid to experiment so I will do a good bit of it. Here she goes baby.

 

[birdie_man]

Hit it super good today.

I just played a draw.

Hit a few fades and they turned out acceptable enough. I just opened the face and made the same swing as in the video. No shanks. (a few things I have been trying seemed to work)

I still feel like I can hit a better fade but it will have to wait for new irons I am pretty sure.

I'll play again tomorrow and unless I am by myself (AKA a Hermit Golf Loner)...............(but a badass one)...............I will see if I can get some more video.

Still need to hit the range to try some of the bigger experiments.

-Paul