Launch Angle Control

[Kevin Shields]

TrackMan is simply the best for learning many aspects of the golf swing. I use it when I design new products and instruction. I also use similar technology with an About Golf Labs Simulator and 3-D CAD software. I have seen many golfers improve their swings fast and easy using this technology. The price is out of range for most golfers to buy this technology but I have found that the P3Pro swing software with a few tweaks and a video camera with many frames per second is a less expensive alternative and will work fine. If you are really looking to improve your swing you need to have the real data and an instructor who understands how to teach it. Brian is one of the few who can do this. Without your real swing data it is just like pissing into the wind and you are guessing. Start using this technology and not only will you improve but you will see why most top golf instructors just don’t get it and never will. Seeing is believing.

Rock On!!

Hero, I'm very curious to know what is the single biggest eye opener Technology like Trackman has given you and how did it change your perspective on how to get better?

 

[DOCW3]

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Actually, interestingly enough, the Trackman website has found that attack angle only has a very small effect on spin rate:

"Are you saying that hitting down on the ball has no impact on the spin rate? That sounds very surprising…

Yes, actually you do not change the spin rate by hitting more down or up on the ball with the same club, assuming that the ball is impacted on the same spot on the face. Simplified slightly, the correlations are: Attack angle changes the launch angle, with club loft, including shaft flex, changing the spin rate."
Found at: TrackMan™ Newsletter January 2008

I know it's not quite this simple, but it was very interesting to see them differentiate between Attack Angle, and Spin Loft, which they define as the angle between the club's orientation loft and the attack angle.

Would a negative AA not indirectly have a significant effect on spin because a player who has it would require more loft to optimize the driver?

 

[mjstrong]

Would a negative AA not indirectly have a significant effect on spin because a player who has it would require more loft to optimize the driver?

I'm sure that a player with a negative attack angle would need to use a higher lofted driver, and thus spin the ball more, Yes.

 

[twitch127]

I'm sure that a player with a negative attack angle would need to use a higher lofted driver, and thus spin the ball more, Yes.

Depends on clubhead speed of the player. Charles Howell has a -5 AA and has 8.5 degree driver, Sergio -3 and has 9 degree driver. Most mere mortals will need more loft with negative AA though

 

[mrose]

i think the shaft has the greatest affect on launch angle and overall ballflight. by chance i stumbled across a titleist 905R set up for a tall strong tour player and it was fitted with an x shaft that is much stronger than anything i have played with before. in 2 years with it i have not once been disappointed with it's trajectory. generally it goes flat and hard on a medium flight and if i catch it slightly high on the face it will go higher but longer interestingly enough with no spin at all (above the COG i'd guess).

reading this thread has made me think i should go and get it measured and get my numbers so i don't lose these dream specifications.

in some ways i wonder if part of it is due to improved mechanics because as well as a better trajectory i don't lose it left any more.

basically, i recommend searching for the perfect shaft in your driver. this has ruined my 3 wood game though because i had a stronger shaft put in my 3 wood and now that goes like a driver as well! i had a good round going the other day and hit 3 wood for safety on the difficult 16th at my club. it is very narrow with water right and dense bush left and the darned thing went 300. hitting it soft completely removed spin i suspect. luckily it went straight. unluckily i 3 putted from 10ft.

 

[benhogan55]

I am well connected in the golf world. I can’t say much more than that on this forum. I can say in the last 3 years my eyes have opened wide.

how would you go about getting fit for a driver or a set of irons?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

i think the shaft has the greatest affect on launch angle and overall ballflight.

No offense but that is not correct. Shafts do play a role don't get me wrong but it does not have the greatest effect on launch angle. Remember that launch angle is measured as the launch straight from the clubhead and what you are seeing is the stronger shaft is reducing the spin and flattening out your ballflight.

 

[mrose]

No offense but that is not correct. Shafts do play a role don't get me wrong but it does not have the greatest effect on launch angle. Remember that launch angle is measured as the launch straight from the clubhead and what you are seeing is the stronger shaft is reducing the spin and flattening out your ballflight.

it's a chicken or the egg kind of deal Jim because without the shaft i could not hit it with low spin unless i manipulated my swing. i stand by my comment that for me the shaft is the most important. you have gone further and explained why the shaft is the most important: because it reduces spin. i have given the medicine for the ball flight disease while you have gone deeper and explained the underlying cause.

the feel of swinging with a strong shaft through the ball is a very stable clubhead. a clubhead that imparts less spin no doubt.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

it's a chicken or the egg kind of deal Jim because without the shaft i could not hit it with low spin unless i manipulated my swing.

Again you are confusing launch angle with spin; spin is a different measurement.

i stand by my comment that for me the shaft is the most important. you have gone further and explained why the shaft is the most important: because it reduces spin. i have given the medicine for the ball flight disease while you have gone deeper and explained the underlying cause.

The shaft is 3rd behind loft and clubhead COG. Once you have the right loft to create enough launch angle and a COG to match your spin characteristics you then fine tune the combo by finding both the right flex and the right shaft to give it the overall "fit." You found a loft/clubhead that worked for you and then you need a stiff enough shaft to lower the spin. It may have affected your launch angle slightly but not a ton.

the feel of swinging with a strong shaft through the ball is a very stable clubhead. a clubhead that imparts less spin no doubt.

Stiffer shafts almost always spin less because they deflect less at impact because well, they are stiffer.

 

[mjstrong]

Depends on clubhead speed of the player. Charles Howell has a -5 AA and has 8.5 degree driver, Sergio -3 and has 9 degree driver. Most mere mortals will need more loft with negative AA though

Definitely, although I believe the case is a little different for low-swing-speed players. Loft becomes a more important component of launch conditions, where spin is more of a priority for high-swing-speed players.

 

[mrose]

Again you are confusing launch angle with spin; spin is a different measurement.



The shaft is 3rd behind loft and clubhead COG. Once you have the right loft to create enough launch angle and a COG to match your spin characteristics you then fine tune the combo by finding both the right flex and the right shaft to give it the overall "fit." You found a loft/clubhead that worked for you and then you need a stiff enough shaft to lower the spin. It may have affected your launch angle slightly but not a ton.



Stiffer shafts almost always spin less because they deflect less at impact because well, they are stiffer.

why then after changing my 3 wood to an extra stiff shaft did i find a similar ball flight to my driver? i now hit my 3 wood as flat as my driver yet it has 4 extra degrees of loft. it has a very small head so maybe COG? then again, if i hit my 3 wood off the same height of tee as driver i'd hit it higher so maybe it's a combination of shaft, angle of attack and shaft lean?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

the stiffer shaft is most likely not deflecting the head as much as impact and you are delivering the head at a different angle and loft