Leadbetter article

[SJO]

In Golf Digest this month Leadbetter talks about the shoulders and says they should each move independently. You should feel your right shoulder expand your chest near the top of the backswing and feel your left shoulder expand your chest on the way down.

My swing feels like my shoulders get closer to each other as I get near to impact, I think this is because I swing my arms pretty hard. What are other people's feelings in their swings regarding this point? Should it feel like your shoulders are stretched apart from each other through the ball ideally? An answer from a Manzella coach would be cool.

 

[dannyc]

if i thought about that i'd whiff, lol.

 

[SJO]

I don't care what you think of the coach or magazine, that wasn't the question.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

what do u mean by "expand your chest?"

 

[SJO]

what do u mean by "expand your chest?"

Stretch it by your shoulders moving apart.

 

[Chip Putterman]

I don't care what you think of the coach or magazine, that wasn't the question.

Lighten up,Francis!!

 

[SJO]

Lighten up,Francis!!

That is just what I thought about his post! No need for aggression.

 

[Walt]

Keiko, If that is true, nothing against Brian, but why is he not then on tour making millions. Your logic is faulty. You do have a point though. Tiger Woods said he ignores 90% of what any instructor tells him. Why? If they can't play as well as he does then why should he listen to them. I think that means if it works for you then use it and if not then ignore it.

 

[Shot Limit]

How exactly do you move your shoulders apart? Is this a swing thought or are you actually expanding your chest? Why would you do this?

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

Keiko, If that is true, nothing against Brian, but why is he not then on tour making millions. Your logic is faulty. You do have a point though. Tiger Woods said he ignores 90% of what any instructor tells him. Why? If they can't play as well as he does then why should he listen to them. I think that means if it works for you then use it and if not then ignore it.

The issue that Martin originally posted was regarding the quality of golf instruction. To assert that one must capable of playing at the highest level in order to instruct at the highest level is absurd. If we look at virtually every major athletic endeavor, it is typically the player who barely made the top level or came close, that becomes the best instructor. As a rule, these are the less physically gifted, but hardest working and those willing to try new approaches to scratch their way to the top.

I believe Keiko was merely venting about some of the idiocy we read in Golf Digest, and the unwillingness of anyone in the golf mainstream media to address results-oriented instruction. I am not a big TGC viewer, and my only reading of golf magazines occurs in business lobbies, but I have yet to see or read one word about Trackman, the d-plane, etc. I do not recall which instructor (maybe GPM) posted the info, but the relatively small amount of instruction that is incorporated into the certification process is discouraging.

 

[jpeck]

This reminds me of a move that ruined my swing back in the mid 90s. As a righty, I was told to kind of shrug my right shoulder up towards my ear on the backswing, and shrug my left shoulder through impact.

There was something else too, a thing I had to do with my right forearm during the backswing....a sort of a lifting move, but my hero could never explain exactly what it was. I was supposed to figure it out.

Golf became a dangerous game.

 

[Curbanski]

In Golf Digest this month Leadbetter talks about the shoulders and says they should each move independently.

I think mine do move independently! When I turn back, the right-side-of-the-back muscles (Traps, back deltoid, I guess) seem to help lift the right shoulder and streatch the right side of my chest sort of like doing a rt-arm-only bench press. And my front shoulder curls back/under toward the left pec. as I attempt to show my left-side-of-the-back to the target.

You should feel your right shoulder expand your chest near the top of the backswing and feel your left shoulder expand your chest on the way down.

I don't sense any chest expansion on the way down. However, I do feel/sense chest expansion by the left shoulder/left back (trapezius etc.) as it pulls up and "as far away from the ball as possable just before impact as Brian has mentioned." When I observe Tiger and most other pros, their left chest area looks very open at the finish and the left shoulder high and back as the left trapezius muscle contracts.

My swing feels like my shoulders get closer to each other as I get near to impact, I think this is because I swing my arms pretty hard. What are other people's feelings in their swings regarding this point? Should it feel like your shoulders are stretched apart from each other through the ball ideally?

I don't think the shoulders are streatched apart and expanding the chest "through the ball." My shoulders seem to be changing roles/directions. This is much more obvious in the short shots where I'm using upper body power only to "hit" the ball toward a specific target (spot on the green) and want accuracy verses having a 35-45 yard wide target as in driving where I use the lower body for a big powerful "swing at the ball." I think I need to read the GD article. For sure, it's not some new concept, I've read of it before!

 

[Richie3Jack]

I understand what DL is getting at, but to me this is another example of him teaching mechanics from feel, instead of teaching feel from mechanics.

Point being, feeling like expanding your chest by moving your shoulders apart may give some people the correct mechanics. However, it may not get the proper mechanics for many other people. Feels are subjective, but pop golf instruction magazines seem to keep emphasizing that the golfer should feel this or that instead of discussing what exactly are good mechanics and alignments are vs. poor mechanics and alignments are first, then discussing how the golfer can learn how to feel those mechanics and develop their own swing feel.

As far as ability to play and level of instruction, I usually believe they do not correlate to each other. I think being a better player can help improve your instruction. It helps to understand what its like and what it takes to be a great player, but I don't think it's mandatory.

For example, Doug Blevins is a former kicking coach for the Miami Dolphins and has been highly praised by former Dallas and Miami coach Jimmy Johnson. Blevins has never kicked a field goal in his life because he suffered from cerebal palsy.

Blevins even believes that never having kicked a FG has helped his ability as a teacher as he has said 'I'm not passing on something simple that worked for me but won't work for anyone else.'

I just believe a guy that has never kicked a FG before and can coach guys like Adam Viniatieri (who was so awful his senior year in college he was benched in favor of a linebacker to do the kicking), David Akers, etc. means that you don't have to be a really good player to be a great golf instructor.





3JACK