Left arm after impact - extension problems

[Dariusz J.]

What is the best drill and/or swing thought to learn to retract the left arm elbow after impact and obtain a full extension of the right arm in order to promote more in-to-in swing pattern ?

Thanks & cheers

 

[JeffM]

I think that the left arm's elbow should never retract after impact. The end of the followthrough is defined as the time-point in the early post-impact phase of the swing - when both the left and right arm are fully extended. The left elbow should start to bend after that point in time, while the left forearm simultaneously rotates anti-clockwise and thereby supinates the wrist-hand unit, so that the back of the left hand (with its still flat left wrist) eventually lies on plane. That applies to short iron shots. When hitting a driver, it is amazing how little the left elbow bends in the early/mid post-impact phase of the swing, and how both arms remain fully extended.

Here is a series of capture images from Stuart Appleby's driver swing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jqJ9R2LypY&NR=1

Note how the left elbow only starts to bend very late in the post-impact phase of the swing. However, the swing is still very in-to-in because Appleby continues to rotate his torso (and therefore both shoulder sockets) through the post-impact phase of the swing.

Jeff.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Jeff, depends. Watch Hogan, Snead, Trevino - their front arms bent in elbow just after impact allowing for a full extension of the rear arm and a great open body position at impact. It's called a "second lawnmower" move, as Mr.Snead called it.
Granted, if you have both arms extended in the impact zone and are not so open with shoulders at impact as Appleby - your observations are valid and I agree 100%. What I want is to go further with my in-to-in swing and bent right arm at impact (a'la Snead or Hogan) since I think it should be still more "to-in" ...that's why I brought this subject.

Cheers

 

[JeffM]

Dariusz - I agree that Snead folded his left elbow soon after impact. However, Hogan looks very similar to Stuart Appleby when hitting a driver.

Jeff.

 

[puttmad]

...

What is the best drill and/or swing thought to learn to retract the left arm elbow after impact and obtain a full extension of the right arm in order to promote more in-to-in swing pattern ?

Thanks & cheers

Swing the club left handed, while keeping your left upper arm on your chest (pivot too..)...you will find the left arm naturally tries to bend just after impact....it is like a pendulum motion....
Get used to the feeling and then add the right arm and do the same thing...
Think of the follow thro as a left hander's backswing...

BTW trying to hold the left arm straight throughout the follow thro can lead to left elbow problems...

 

[Brian Manzella]

YUCK!!!!!

The right elbow bends on the backswing, when the left arm swings across the chest.

The left elbow will fold when the opposite happens.

In some swings:

Hogan, Appleby, Tom Bartlett, Lindsey Gahm​

The left arm DOES NOT SWING ACROSS THE CHEST early past impact. The left shoulder moves up and back and the left arm can stay long.

That's it.

Most people need to LEARN how to swing their arms from their shoulder sockets.

If you do this, with minimal forward turning of the upper body, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF FINISH SWIVEL, the left elbow will fold as pretty as pie.

What would ya'll do without me?

 

[BCGolf]

Hitting or Swinging

Doesn't it also depend on if the player is hitting or swinging? The throwout action of a swinger allows the left arm to remain longer - later. Also, doesn't Rhythm also allow the left arm to remain longer - later?

 

[Dariusz J.]

Ingenious...

The right elbow bends on the backswing, when the left arm swings across the chest.

The left elbow will fold when the opposite happens.

In some swings:

Hogan, Appleby, Tom Bartlett, Lindsey Gahm​

The left arm DOES NOT SWING ACROSS THE CHEST early past impact. The left shoulder moves up and back and the left arm can stay long.

That's it.

Most people need to LEARN how to swing their arms from their shoulder sockets.

If you do this, with minimal forward turning of the upper body, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF FINISH SWIVEL, the left elbow will fold as pretty as pie.

What would ya'll do without me?

Wow, golf swing has no mysteries for you, Brian, eh ? Indeed, it seems you are right again...

Reasuming:
- less open upper body at impact + earlier finish swivel = folded left arm early in the follow-through (Snead's lawnmover);
- more open upper body at impact + later finish swivel = straight left arm until late in the follow-through.

Correct ?

And if yes, which of the above you prefer and why ?

Lastly, one more thing - Snead described it as this 'lawnmower move' which has a connotation of left elbow pulling action after impact. Although the result may be identical, early swivel after impact puts the squeeze on everything biut not pulling elbow back and up - where's the trick ?

Cheers

 

[JeffM]

Dariusz - you write-: "Reasuming:
- less open upper body at impact + earlier finish swivel = folded left arm early in the follow-through (Snead's lawnmover);
- more open upper body at impact + later finish swivel = straight left arm until late in the follow-through."

---------------------

I think that the "real life" evidence doesn't support your assumptions.

Here is a comparison of Snead's and Appleby's followthrough.

Note that Snead has a more open upper and lower body at impact than Appleby (the capture image of Snead is the closest to impact that I could capture). Note that Appleby doesn't have his left shoulder socket further away from the ball at impact (or post-impact) than Snead. Note the key difference - Snead's right arm is far more angled back than Appleby's right arm in image 3, due to the fact that Snead's followthrough swingarc is far more to the inside (far more rounded) than Appleby's followthrough swingarc, and I think that it accounts for the fact that Snead's left elbow has to be more bent than Appleby's at comparable time-points in the followthrough.

Jeff.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Jeff, those are only my assumptions and I can be easily wrong, especially with this "body more or less open" point. However, I believe Brian is right - Snead could swing more in-to-in because of an early finish swivel. I have practiced it today and found that this move evidently helps to fold the left arm after impact.
What I thought is that e.g. if your upper body is pretty open at impact you will swing "to-in" automatically even if your left arm is extended and still accross your chest post impact.

Cheers

 

[JeffM]

Dariusz - you wrote-: "Snead could swing more in-to-in because of an early finish swivel".

That statement appears to be self-evident, but what comes first - does Snead have an early swivel because he swing more in-to-in OR does Snead have a more in-to-in swing because he swivels early? I personally believe that an early swivel is secondary to a more in-to-in swing, and that it is merely an automatic anatomical-biomechanical phenomenon that automatically/naturally occurs when the swing is more in-to-in.

Jeff.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Jeff, that's the point ! In my response post to Brian I wrote:


"Lastly, one more thing - Snead described it as this 'lawnmower move' which has a connotation of left elbow pulling action after impact. Although the result may be identical, early swivel after impact puts the squeeze on everything but not pulling elbow back and up - where's the trick ?"

...although it works what Brian explained and suggested - I am still wondering what is first: an egg or a hen ?

Cheers

 

[CarlSpackler]

Throwing motion?

If you held a golf ball in your left hand and back-hand threw it down the target line, how would your left elbow behave? I think the natural throwing motion would have the left elbow bending/folding to facilitate both speed and accuracy to the target. The momemtum and weight of the club during a regular swing would keep the left elbow straight longer (especially as viewed during stop-action photos) but the intention of the golfer is like the natural fold of a throw.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Carl, OK. You're right, as Brian is and Jeff is. I'll write it once again: was Snead's lawnmower move of the left elbow only a feeling or was it a deliberate action ?
What you describe is like describing swivel - left arm folds easily and naturally. However there's no active action of pulling up in it. Maybe it was only Snead's imagination to help him to swivel correctly ?

Cheers

 

[JeffM]

Dariusz

Think of the situation from a biomechanical perspective. Biomechanics are subservient to a golfer's intentions and not the other way round. If Snead had a rotary swing whereby the in-square-in clubhead swingpath is more rounded (more in-to-in) than Stuart Appleby's clubhead swingpath, then he obviously has to fold his left elbow earlier than Appleby. One doesn't have to consciously think of folding the left elbow in the followthrough, because it has to happen naturally - as it does when throwing a frisbee backhanded with the left arm. One's intention is to throw the frisbee at a target, and one' doesn't think of human biomechanical movements during the throwing action. One simply throw the frisbee at the target, and the biomechanical movements happen naturally. In analysing one's body movements after the throwing action, one could state that is "feels" like pulling on a lawnmower cord, but one doesn't have to think of pulling a lawnmower cord to throw a frisbee backhanded.

Jeff.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Yep, you may have summed it up, Jeff. Since noone here confirms that there's such a move as "lawnmower" it could be just a different feeling to desribe the lead arm folding thanks to swivel action from Mr.Snead.

Cheers