less shoulder turn, more width on the downswing

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ragman

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

Get to the 'top' of the position that everyone is talking about:

Short arm swing/ lots of shoulder turn.

In that position if you can move your shoulders FORWARD or your arms BACKWARD and the other doesn't move>>>>>you have too much slack and are asking for lots of grief.
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How many times have you seen someone in a position where "[they] can move [their] shoulders FORWARD or [their] arms BACKWARD and the other doesn't move" with a right elbow bend at about 90 and the left arm pretty straight?

One of the proponents is to get the arms to respond "on time".

I'm scrolling with Badds' swing right now and his left arm moves during the transition as if to keep an imaginary rope between his knee and grip taut.
 
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matt

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quote:Originally posted by lagster

It seems that the WIDE BACKSWING proponents are saying the backswing stops at the TOP, instead of the END.
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If you make a correct WIDE backswing - in, back, and up the inclined plane - you can take it back as far as you want. You're on plane, so it really doesn't matter when you take it back to.

With a "Golfing World" wide backswing, they're offplane as it is. It's like they forgot to come UP and IN. They just want to get as far BACK as possible. It's trouble all the way.
 
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lagster

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Matt,

Back, Up, and In the Turned Shoulder Plane?

This is a good thread! I agree that a lot is heard today about the Wide part, but Back and Up are not talked about much. (3 dimensional backswing)
 
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densikat

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Is it just me or does width seem to be an in vogue thing at the moment. Same way leg drive, high hands, reverse C was popular when Nicklaus was at the top of his game. Why follow these trends when we have a geometric model from Homer to aim towards.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Wow guys...

Does anyone, ANYone, understand what I am saying?

Butch and Tiger used to talk about a wide short backswing with lots of shoulder turn.

THIS IS NO GOOD>because the shoulders shouldn't turn ANYMORE THAN THEY HAVE TO!!!!

...slack.....
 
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ragman

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

Wow guys...

Does anyone, ANYone, understand what I am saying?

Butch and Tiger used to talk about a wide short backswing with lots of shoulder turn.

THIS IS NO GOOD>because the shoulders shouldn't turn ANYMORE THAN THEY HAVE TO!!!!

...slack.....
Click to expand...
Who turns their shoulders "ANYMORE THAN THEY HAVE TO" ??
 
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MizunoJoe

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I think there are several different concepts being discussed here. Looking back at the original question, the concept of "width on downswing" is mentioned. "Width" of what? If you mean maintaining the left arm radius, fine, but I can't imagine any competent instructor advocating "clubhead path width" on the downswing. From the clubhead standpoint, you want "narrow".

And, yes Brian, I fully agree that the shoulders should only turn as much as necessary to put the hands up, in, and back in the right place, whether that place is at the top or the end.
 
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lagster

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It looks like what these guys are trying to do is STOP or PREVENT the opposite problem... i.e., THE SHOULDERS STOP, AND THE ARMS KEEP ON GOING.

Brian,

What are some of the pitfalls, or complications that could arise with too much SLACK?
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

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I think what Brian is saying is why would you shorten your armswing and put the burden on a big shoulder turn to get the arms far enough back when you could just swing the arms freely and let the shoulders turn enough to support that armswing.

Am I on track Brian?
 
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MetsFanHell

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

Wow guys...

Does anyone, ANYone, understand what I am saying?

Butch and Tiger used to talk about a wide short backswing with lots of shoulder turn.

THIS IS NO GOOD>because the shoulders shouldn't turn ANYMORE THAN THEY HAVE TO!!!!

...slack.....
Click to expand...

Wow....someone must be feeling very inadequate and has a need to talk down to the few people who are paying any attention to him. Why the games?
 
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semipro

New
why not get that 90-100 degree coil(notice I said coil not turn)and just let everything uncoil with relaxation into impact. Its easy and there's no tension in the hands, arms,
 
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wally888

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

Get to the 'top' of the position that everyone is talking about:

Short arm swing/ lots of shoulder turn.

In that position if you can move your shoulders FORWARD or your arms BACKWARD and the other doesn't move>>>>>you have too much slack and are asking for lots of grief.
Click to expand...

The above quote may make more sense than anything I have heard or read about the swing in 50 years!
 
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mclare

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quote:Originally posted by wally888

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Get to the 'top' of the position that everyone is talking about:

Short arm swing/ lots of shoulder turn.

In that position if you can move your shoulders FORWARD or your arms BACKWARD and the other doesn't move>>>>>you have too much slack and are asking for lots of grief.
Click to expand...

The above quote may make more sense than anything I have heard or read about the swing in 50 years!
Click to expand...


Why can't people just try to understand what Brian is saying here? He's given a simple (and brilliant) analogy.

The tougher question Brian is how do we eliminate slack?
 
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semipro

New
Pardon my ignorance but I'll stay with my swing as it fits me and is not a copy of anyone else.
I must seem naieve but what I do works good enough to be a 2 and competing in US Senior Open.
 
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JohhnyThomas1

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Interesting thread this was. I wonder if by slack Brian was talking of this. At the top you could easily pull your arms back into a fuller backswing position without any more turn of the shoulders, which = slack in the chain. If you have slack that way it also means you could turn the shoulders in the downswing without dropping the arms down due to the very same slack which again = slack in the chain. Sorry for chatting to myself in an old thread, i just find this TGM stuff most interesting, especially when simplified :)

John
 
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