Lie Angles, Shaft Angle at Address, and Swing Results

[birly-shirly]

My Pings kept "bouncing back" after each attempt to bend them so I baught new clubs

I think the "bouncing back" is a symptom of the way ping heat-treat their iron heads. I don't know who was doing the bending for you, but if it's someone local and you really still wanted to play your old pings, then I believe that Ping can do some special magic in resetting them if you send them back to the factory.

What about the sole angle at impact? Are your new flatter irons now flush to the ground at impact as well as helping your path, or did you need to compromise your lie angle in order to get a better path?

If so, I guess that sounds a warning about even a dynamic fitting. You could get a perfectly "fit" club according to a lie board - which nevertheless screws up your path.

 

[mgranato]

Ping's aren't bent like other clubs, they get the crap beat out of them. They use a "soft" hammer to adjust their irons. Some stainless steel has the memory of an elephant.

The line in this thread is getting a bit blurry between a properly fit club for the swing you have and being properly fit for the swing you want to have. If you have a teacher like Brian who understands the interplay of the two, you can gear things towards the latter. However, being properly fit typically means being fit for the swing you have. This will make a positive difference compared to OTR clubs. If the player has the time, inclination, and guidance to make swing changes with things like path and face they can be fit with clubs that help alter those areas.

Lie boards lie.

 

[birly-shirly]

The line in this thread is getting a bit blurry between a properly fit club for the swing you have and being properly fit for the swing you want to have. If you have a teacher like Brian who understands the interplay of the two, you can gear things towards the latter. However, being properly fit typically means being fit for the swing you have. This will make a positive difference compared to OTR clubs. If the player has the time, inclination, and guidance to make swing changes with things like path and face they can be fit with clubs that help alter those areas.

Lie boards lie.

I agree that the distinction commonly gets blurred - although I didn't feel that was such an issue here.

I am certainly interested in the idea that changes in the lie of a club might affect the swing you make. That's a much more dynamic picture of clubfitting than just the toe or heel of the club dragging in the turf and twisting the face.

I'm also interested in the idea that there might be more to lie angle fitting than would be revealed by the straightforward use of a lie board.

Can I tempt you to expand your thoughts on this?

 

[trickyric67]

for me it was purely fitting. I have fought a hook for years and was always fit, either by lie board or systems like Pings and it was always wrong. My swing is pretty good and we really didn't change a whole lot, but without the flatter lie the changes Brian was making weren't working until "tada" the flatter club. Then everything he was asking me to do was easy.

 

[mgranato]

I agree that the distinction commonly gets blurred - although I didn't feel that was such an issue here.

I am certainly interested in the idea that changes in the lie of a club might affect the swing you make. That's a much more dynamic picture of clubfitting than just the toe or heel of the club dragging in the turf and twisting the face.

I'm also interested in the idea that there might be more to lie angle fitting than would be revealed by the straightforward use of a lie board.

Can I tempt you to expand your thoughts on this?

Adjusting the length of the club, it's weight (static and/or swing weight) can also have an effective influence on the things we're talking about. Finding the right combo is the key. OTR clubs are too long for most, and they seem to get longer and longer. More than just the angle between the head and shaft is in play with the correct lie for the golfer.

Lie boards are for convenience (for the fitter) and a tool for "drive thru club fitting". Sometimes they will get the player in the right ball park, but that's about it. Outdoors with real balls, off real grass, with every iron is the best way to get a fit for your lie.

In Tricky's case - good swing, hooking problem, consistent off-center hit, and remedied with a flatter lie angle - Regardless of what the receipt said, I would say he had never been fit correctly, until now.

 

[spktho]

Lie boards lie.

How's the vertical sharpie line on a ball compare to the lie board? Better or no?

 

[Frans@France]

I am certainly interested in the idea that changes in the lie of a club might affect the swing you make.

Take a look at my posting one page back about the swingweight.

 

[Frans@France]

How's the vertical sharpie line on a ball compare to the lie board? Better or no?

Much better. I use the lie detector from golftek. People are less intimidated and stopped hitting the lie board instead of the ball

 

[mgranato]

Much better. I use the lie detector from golftek. People are less intimidated and stopped hitting the lie board instead of the ball

+1

A sharpie and some range balls can also give you a nice little self-test next time you hit the range.