Light clubs and throwaway

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ej20

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From everything that I've read or heard,just about every good player prefer heavier clubs.Hogan and Elkington used heavier than typical clubs and both have outstanding lag.

Is there a connection with clubhead throwaway and the weight of clubs.Do lighter clubs encourage throwaway?What about swingweight as well?
 

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
My take on it is this:

-light head, heavy handle prevents throwaway as the urge to move the clubhead is not there as much as with a heavy head.

-heavy club needs more pivot to move the mass thus lowering the speed but increasing the thrust.

-light club requires high speed as a result low thrust

Ben Doyle and Elkington were agreeing on heavy grips and heavy clubs when thy were working together. The best thing to do is have a clubfitting from a pro who at least understands the law of the flail and a form 3 lever, then you can try your components with clubfitting components.
all have pros and cons, a lot of my students fitt into steel shafts as weight is preferred to engage the pivot doing all the work!

If I was a golf club manufacturer lets say Taylor Made or Titleist I would produce light as possible clubs with stiff shafts and lie about the loft on them. Why? Because the average ignorant hacker wants a stiff shaft like Tiger and when they throw the throw is less dynamic and therefore easier to manage. Light clubs would really suit the illusion the hacker loves: that is to swing that club from the wrists to feel power and overacceleration, they would love a light Taylor driver that they can really flail around. The driver I would sell them would a 9deg with 13deg loft, their ego would be met and the ball would still fly a little in the air with their bending left wrists through impact.
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
The heavier the shaft and the heavier the head the "easier" it is to feel pressure point #3.

Also you brian has a lot to do with it. My old wedges were all D5...my new ones came out at D0 because my clubmaker forgot to put a tip pin in them.

They felt REALLY odd at first because i was used to a heavier shaft and a higher swingweight. Now i can't tell at all.
 

ej20

New
quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN

My take on it is this:

-light head, heavy handle prevents throwaway as the urge to move the clubhead is not there as much as with a heavy head.
Steve,

So you are saying if one does go to heavier clubs then the extra weight should be towards the handle end?This would mean a lighter swingweight as well,right?

I'm tending to agree with you as I have Taylormade irons with the bubble shaft which places more weight towards the head and I tend to throwaway more with these than my woods.I'm hoping this is the explanation as I just ordered new irons.

I'd really like to know if there is some science behind this theory or is it just a feel thing.
 

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Form 3 lever www.golfresearch.com go and ask Gregg McHatton GSED, Fulcrum- Force- Weight.

Jim said he likes to feel the head and this is great, but when the golfer with uneducated hands feels it they wil try to throw it, if they felt the handle(more detailed than Eddie Merrins dog & pony show) they would monitor and aim it better and physics will release it, if you are educated enough to sustain it then great I agree but lets get some educated hands and storage first up.
 
Also, a little known fact is that, at least in his prime, Nicklaus backweighted his clubs with weight plugs in the butt end of the shafts under the grips.
 
ej, I have cleveland TA2"s and got them originally with dynamic golf super lights, which are steel shafts that are about 25 grams lighter then regular steel. I never liked the feel of these clubs.

I hir with a training aid, called the pure swing, and would be hitting the pure swing VERY well ball after ball after ball. Then I would switch to my pitching wedge and hit it like crap. To me my club felt like it had no feel at all. Then I changed my shafts to standard steeel, same flex, and now I hit my irons a lot better and when I hit with the pure swing I can now hit my clubs after. Just a personal experience i went through a couple of weeks ago.
 

ej20

New
quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

ej, I have cleveland TA2"s and got them originally with dynamic golf super lights, which are steel shafts that are about 25 grams lighter then regular steel. I never liked the feel of these clubs.

I hir with a training aid, called the pure swing, and would be hitting the pure swing VERY well ball after ball after ball. Then I would switch to my pitching wedge and hit it like crap. To me my club felt like it had no feel at all. Then I changed my shafts to standard steeel, same flex, and now I hit my irons a lot better and when I hit with the pure swing I can now hit my clubs after. Just a personal experience i went through a couple of weeks ago.
Thanks for sharing that.I will definitely experiment more with my clubs now.There certainly does seem to be some consistency here.Iron play has always been my weakness and it just might be those damn bubble shafts.I've never been much of a club ho,have had this set for 9 years.
 

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN

My take on it is this:

-light head, heavy handle prevents throwaway as the urge to move the clubhead is not there as much as with a heavy head.

-heavy club needs more pivot to move the mass thus lowering the speed but increasing the thrust.

-light club requires high speed as a result low thrust

Ben Doyle and Elkington were agreeing on heavy grips and heavy clubs when thy were working together. The best thing to do is have a clubfitting from a pro who at least understands the law of the flail and a form 3 lever, then you can try your components with clubfitting components.
all have pros and cons, a lot of my students fitt into steel shafts as weight is preferred to engage the pivot doing all the work!

If I was a golf club manufacturer lets say Taylor Made or Titleist I would produce light as possible clubs with stiff shafts and lie about the loft on them. Why? Because the average ignorant hacker wants a stiff shaft like Tiger and when they throw the throw is less dynamic and therefore easier to manage. Light clubs would really suit the illusion the hacker loves: that is to swing that club from the wrists to feel power and overacceleration, they would love a light Taylor driver that they can really flail around. The driver I would sell them would a 9deg with 13deg loft, their ego would be met and the ball would still fly a little in the air with their bending left wrists through impact.

That is EXACTLY what Ping did! My only set (the original Ping Zing) came with stiff shafts, a C7 swingweight and jacked-up lofts...
 

Guitar Hero

New member
Overall weight of the club and the matching of shaft frequency is key. Back weighting allows you to increase overall weight for matching. SwingSync has been doing this for years. A 3 iron will have the same overall weight as a 7 iron and feel the same when in motion if built correctly. Forget the swing weight scales and start matching overall weight and shaft frequency of your clubs to your swing. Improvement is unavoidable.
[8]
 
I love the feel of a heavier club. My wedges are set at D6 and my irons are about D3 (might make them heavier) I could never get used to using lighter weighted clubs in the time that I have played the game, but I might give the backweighting theory a go though.
Alex
 
quote:Originally posted by poweranglepro

Overall weight of the club and the matching of shaft frequency is key. Back weighting allows you to increase overall weight for matching. SwingSync has been doing this for years. A 3 iron will have the same overall weight as a 7 iron and feel the same when in motion if built correctly. Forget the swing weight scales and start matching overall weight and shaft frequency of your clubs to your swing. Improvement is unavoidable.
[8]

This is very interesting. Does this mean that when backweighting, stiffer flexes are required as the club shaft gets longer?
 

Guitar Hero

New member
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by poweranglepro

Overall weight of the club and the matching of shaft frequency is key. Back weighting allows you to increase overall weight for matching. SwingSync has been doing this for years. A 3 iron will have the same overall weight as a 7 iron and feel the same when in motion if built correctly. Forget the swing weight scales and start matching overall weight and shaft frequency of your clubs to your swing. Improvement is unavoidable.
[8]

This is very interesting. Does this mean that when backweighting, stiffer flexes are required as the club shaft gets longer?

You can have a single frequency or a progressive frequency system for all clubs. The back weighting is used for overall weight matching and does not change the frequency of the shaft.[8]
 
quote:Originally posted by NikeBlades

I love the feel of a heavier club. My wedges are set at D6 and my irons are about D3 (might make them heavier) I could never get used to using lighter weighted clubs in the time that I have played the game, but I might give the backweighting theory a go though.
Alex
swing weight has nothing to do with the the overall weight of the club
 

Tom Bartlett

Administrator
A few years back...I'm guessing early eighties (Brian can really tell you) there was a big kick towards "feather lite" clubs. The point was for quicker swing speed and easier to swing. In the real world no one could hit them. They lost their "feel" for the club. Probably because everyone was used to the heavy feel. If you could start a kid who had never touched a club before with them you might have something.
 
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