Low Point vs. Ball Position

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niblick1

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Brian Manzella said:
Yet, in the 22 years I have known Ben and hundred of his students, and evaluated their golf swings, their seems to be only two flaws with their swings.

1. Slightly too inside-out

2. Low point TOO FAR FORWARD!

Hmmm....

Apparently, all of those AXIOMS are not very axiomatic. :eek:
Click to expand...

Brian-

This may be too far off point, so of course feel free to disregard, but I do have a much less theoretical low-point/ball position question. I really have trouble whenever I've experimented using the SD pattern and trying to move ball position back closer to middle on short irons. I feel most comfortable with ball off left heel (or not too far from there). Why the recommendation in SD to play shorter irons closer to middle of stance? Are there likely other issues that stop a person from being able to hit as well with a further back ball position? Is this something that you would try to fix (I don't think you said anything about it with my last lesson)?
 
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niblick1

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Thanks to Brian (or whomever) for moving my question out of the Blog thread.

Here's what I am really trying to figure out.

I am using SD pattern. I watch the Jack Nicklaus videos on Youtube quite often to get ideas about tweaks. I started experimenting with what he calls "release," (I know Brain gets "hives" from hearing him describe release from the top) which I take to be just snapping everything 5-6 inches front of the ball by getting my lead shoulder a long way from the ball and letting arms/hands/club align automatically in front of the ball. I think it's the first time ever my release has some real snap to it and feels unmanipulated and started from the ground up. I feel like I release from ground up with my feet first and am really snapping not far past ball. My whole swing feels like it starts from ground on backswing and then starts down from the ground as well. Ok, all good so far.

Here's the thing - I am hitting the ball exceptionally high. I mean exceptionally. I have decent but not huge swing speed, but I am hitting my driver out of sight high - with 8.5 degree loft driver and a decent x-stiff shaft. I am hitting an 8-iron so high the people I play with are joking about my shots plugging in greens instead of backing up. The problem with all this is am losing some distance (not a whole lot, maybe a club or club-and-half, maybe 15 yards on a driver?) and need to bring flight down. I think maybe I am adding loft on all shots and adding a little layback at impact through release and hitting the ball very straight, with only the tiniest of draws. I do play the ball pretty far forward (almost everything off instep to just slightly back for short irons). And I am not flipping. I am hitting wedges good off tight, wet winter lies.

I can't figure out how to use this idea of letting everything snap in front of the ball and at the same time move the ball back towards center (as Brian describes on SD video) on shorter irons or to hit it lower while using this release. When I use the "underhanded javelin toss" idea of Soft Draw or try moving ball back, I lose the snap feel and the swing feels less powerful and less automatic although at this point I think I do actually hit it further/lower that way (and more erratically and less from ground up).

Any ideas? Brian? Anyone?
 
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Guitar Hero

Guitar Hero

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niblick1 said:
Thanks to Brian (or whomever) for moving my question out of the Blog thread.

Here's what I am really trying to figure out.

I am using SD pattern. I watch the Jack Nicklaus videos on Youtube quite often to get ideas about tweaks. I started experimenting with what he calls "release," (I know Brain gets "hives" from hearing him describe release from the top) which I take to be just snapping everything 5-6 inches front of the ball by getting my lead shoulder a long way from the ball and letting arms/hands/club align automatically in front of the ball. I think it's the first time ever my release has some real snap to it and feels unmanipulated and started from the ground up. I feel like I release from ground up with my feet first and am really snapping not far past ball. My whole swing feels like it starts from ground on backswing and then starts down from the ground as well. Ok, all good so far.

Here's the thing - I am hitting the ball exceptionally high. I mean exceptionally. I have decent but not huge swing speed, but I am hitting my driver out of sight high - with 8.5 degree loft driver and a decent x-stiff shaft. I am hitting an 8-iron so high the people I play with are joking about my shots plugging in greens instead of backing up. The problem with all this is am losing some distance (not a whole lot, maybe a club or club-and-half, maybe 15 yards on a driver?) and need to bring flight down. I think maybe I am adding loft on all shots and adding a little layback at impact through release and hitting the ball very straight, with only the tiniest of draws. I do play the ball pretty far forward (almost everything off instep to just slightly back for short irons). And I am not flipping. I am hitting wedges good off tight, wet winter lies.

I can't figure out how to use this idea of letting everything snap in front of the ball and at the same time move the ball back towards center (as Brian describes on SD video) on shorter irons or to hit it lower while using this release. When I use the "underhanded javelin toss" idea of Soft Draw or try moving ball back, I lose the snap feel and the swing feels less powerful and less automatic although at this point I think I do actually hit it further/lower that way (and more erratically and less from ground up).

Any ideas? Brian? Anyone?
Click to expand...

Post a video of your driver swing if you can so we can check it out and help.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Few people really understand how high a driver needs to be hit or how high iron shots really go when struck well. Ever been to a PGA or Nationwide event? It can be humbling to see how high these guys really hit it.

Now the thing is though hitting it high isn't a problem (unless you play in really windy areas) but it's controlling the spin and for that you need launch monitor data or you need someone with a trained eye to be able to spot ballooning in driver or iron shots.

How fast of a swing speed do u have with driver and 5 iron and what driver and irons do u play?
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
cmartingolf said:
Nib,

What kind of scores are you posting....

Really high ball flight with divots?? Sounds good to me.
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Exactly, it sounds like a case of a well struck shot and just not used to the height of them which is why i encourage everyone at some point to go to a PGA or Nationwide Event and see how high they hit all their shots
 
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niblick1

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MartinC, Kevin, Jim K. and G-Hero-

I really appreciate the replies, guys. If I had a camera to do video I would post my swing. I may buy one.

I am playing well, and my handicap in recent months -- thanks to 4 lessons with Brian over 18 months and the SD pattern -- is down to the lowest ever for me (4), with a mediocre at best (but improving) short game. I've had one subpar round for 18 on a good course in the past few months (a first for me) and break par for 9 holes semi-occasionally now - but the really high shot thing is a very recent occurrence that hasn't hurt or helped scores yet. My golf game had become an embarrassing disaster prior to Brian.

I'm beginning to see you guys need more precise info to help me online. Specific spin numbers and exact carries. I've been on monitors twice in the past year and the huge disparity in both sets makes me doubt both sets. Both times the monitor showed very high spin rates, especailly with driver, and I've bought lower spin driver heads and x-stiff shafts and lower lofts.

I have played with some Nationwide players in the past year, and I am hitting it about as high as they do right now, they just hit it WAY beyond me.

What is puzzling me is everything would be specatacular if I were hitting the ball closer to my swing distances of this summer or a year ago (though i was less accurate) - as I am struggling during this period of very high shots to hit an 8-iron more than,say, 135-140ish (without some extra effort)? My drives are accurate and straight with very very slight draw (only misses seem to be pulls) but are 15-25 yards shorter than my max distance of maybe a year ago - I want to convert 20 per cent of my "up" into "forward."

I am thinking that I am amost hitting like mid-sole with my clubs and turning my right hand almost palm-up (catch the raindrops) through impact and through to the finish instead of more right hand palm down through impact (which Brian worked with me on last summer), and I am probably using less conscious right hand/arm as I feel like I am just automatically snapping just past the ball - but I have trouble doing those things with this very snapping release feel that otherwise works great without at the same time feeling like I am slowing things down or applying a lot of torque to avoid going palm up through impact. And I have trouble moving the ball back in my stance. Does that make any sense at all? If you have a spin or ballooning issue instead of may adding too much loft, what causes that - steepness?

Btw, I have an idea for Brian/Manzella Academy -- get 3-4 students signed up to go to PING in AZ (or someplace like that with great clubfitting and accurate monitors - wouldn't even a place like PING like that business?) and get fit with your help and observations on swing. And play 9 or 18 day before or after. I'd sign up.
 
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