Managing expectations....

[Bill Miracle]

Been back playing golf a little over a year. Just came up and took 6 hours of lessons from Brian. My putting, chipping, pitching, and punch shot has improved tremendously (since the lessons in 3rd week of Aug). By the sound of the ball, I think I am executing the basic movement pretty darn good on these shots.

However, I can't hit a decent 3/4 to full swing to save my life.
I am getting no power. I can manage to squeeze out some good wedge and short iron shots. But they still seem to be lacking power (I am not mashing it). 5 iron and up...forget it. I am hitting them as far as a 7...really low ball flight.


None of this is on Brian. In fact, I can't wait to get some more lessons from him.

But, my nature is to be very hard on myself and this is eating me up that I'm not putting it together quicker considering the time I am spending on practicing and digesting info.

I need to manage my expectations before I frustrate myself out of the sport.

How long does it take average joe's to put a decent swing together???

 

[Burner]

Been back playing golf a little over a year. Just came up and took 6 hours of lessons from Brian. My putting, chipping, pitching, and punch shot has improved tremendously (since the lessons in 3rd week of Aug). By the sound of the ball, I think I am executing the basic movement pretty darn good on these shots.

However, I can't hit a decent 3/4 to full swing to save my life.
I am getting no power. I can manage to squeeze out some good wedge and short iron shots. But they still seem to be lacking power (I am not mashing it). 5 iron and up...forget it. I am hitting them as far as a 7...really low ball flight.


None of this is on Brian. In fact, I can't wait to get some more lessons from him.

But, my nature is to be very hard on myself and this is eating me up that I'm not putting it together quicker considering the time I am spending on practicing and digesting info.

I need to manage my expectations before I frustrate myself out of the sport.

How long does it take average joe's to put a decent swing together???

IMHO, the average Joe never does put a decent swingtogether - look around you and see what he does.

Putting a decent swing together takes talent, work and constant practise and the average Joe, even if he fulfils these criteria still won't do it.

Thats why he's "Average Joe" and thats golf.

 

[rundmc]

Been back playing golf a little over a year. Just came up and took 6 hours of lessons from Brian. My putting, chipping, pitching, and punch shot has improved tremendously (since the lessons in 3rd week of Aug). By the sound of the ball, I think I am executing the basic movement pretty darn good on these shots.

However, I can't hit a decent 3/4 to full swing to save my life.
I am getting no power. I can manage to squeeze out some good wedge and short iron shots. But they still seem to be lacking power (I am not mashing it). 5 iron and up...forget it. I am hitting them as far as a 7...really low ball flight.


None of this is on Brian. In fact, I can't wait to get some more lessons from him.

But, my nature is to be very hard on myself and this is eating me up that I'm not putting it together quicker considering the time I am spending on practicing and digesting info.

I need to manage my expectations before I frustrate myself out of the sport.

How long does it take average joe's to put a decent swing together???

The David Orr Doctorine is for you my down 'n' out pal . . . Monitored Practice . . . whether that be via a lesson with a qualified instructor such as the I-talian Stallion OR just you and your video camera.

I'm sure that you have a very good understanding of what you are TRYING to do after your session with BM. But since you can't run see him all the time. The next best thing would be to video your swing during your practice sessions and SEE if what you FEEL is REAL???

What may feel like a MILE will probably only result in an INCH of change. The only way to verify it is to SEE IT. Also, be easy on yourself as far as ball flight during a swing change. Your focus should primarily be on the movement and not the ball flight. This is what the nefarious Mike O would advise you . . . he is a GENIUS albeit an evil diabolical dubious one.

 

[mrodock]

IMHO, the average Joe never does put a decent swingtogether - look around you and see what he does.

Putting a decent swing together takes talent, work and constant practise and the average Joe, even if he fulfils these criteria still won't do it.

Thats why he's "Average Joe" and thats golf.

Is Joe average because he has limited skill, limited knowledge, or a combination of both? I think it has more to do with limited knowledge and a disease called: need for instant gratification. I see some of the higher handicaps on the range and to me it looks like it would take a helluva lot of talent in order to simply HIT a golf ball with some of their swings. They manage to do it for every ball quite remarkably. I think with good information, proper practice, and patience, most people can probably get in the low 80's on a fairly easy golf course in a few years. Not a lot of people practice properly or have any patience. Two bad shots in a row and most people want to try a brand new swing thought. And given the golf channel's academy live, golf digest, etc., it seems to me a whole lot of people don't have good information either.

Matt

 

[birdie_man]

Man it takes a lot of practice...

Just keep trying to get better. (however you do it)

(seeing Brian is obviously a great way to go about it)

You can get good....anyone can hit it CRISP and straight and pretty far.

Trust me.

Just think about it....ppl can hit 300 yard drives with one arm....tiny little girls can play great golf on the LPGA.....old men can mash it......etc...

I'm not trying to piss you off lol.....just trying to get to the logic of it.

...

And basically....once you learn to pivot (very awkward starting out....all yall try swinging lefty to see what I mean)......and then lag......

....well you're prolly more than halfway there.

 

[mrodock]

One thing that helps me with managing expectations and just generally being patient is I strongly believe I am on the right track. Whether the game starts to really come together next year, the year after, or a couple years later yet, I know I am starting to get closer and closer, and it will come a lot sooner if I can remain patient (while still working hard of course).

Matt

 

[birdie_man]

Ya man good point.

I'm 1000 times better off now than I was before....

I'm a perfectionist too...

I want a long-term swing....

TGM (and all this stuff in here) is a good deal man.

I'm about 1000% sure about the track I'm on right now. (with this information I mean....swing itself is still evolving)

 

[Brian Manzella]

It take a LONG time, unless....

You "do it right" all the time—or close.

Supervised practice is ideal, but so is a lesson-a-day.

Just becuase of situations like yours, I am in the process of revamping my whole schedule—just to "keep up" with all my student all over the globe.

Hang in there, 30year...you had a lot of stuff to put in.

 

[golfie]

Mirror , mirror on the wall

My advice is to get a mirror and make practice swings while watching. Work on developing a powerful pivot (assuming that you are a Swinger). Remove anything that looks ungolf-like from your practice swing. Video the practice swing and ensure that you acheive a reasonable amount of lag. Go and hit balls. Be aware that bad things can happen with a ball in front of you - clubface issues may crop up. FIX THE CLUBFACE. And do whatever Brian told you to do!

Golfie

 

[Bill Miracle]

I appreciate all the input....

Lots of good suggestions. The mirror is good, the constant video is good, strive to do it right every time is great. Sometimes...in focusing on a certain part of the swing, I get lazy on checking grip, set-up routine, etc...."perfect practice makes perfect".

I think I just needed a pep talk. I am so obsessed with becoming a good golfer ...it was just getting under my skin that I was not executing better on fuller swings. Everyone keeps telling me this is going to take years and I just haven't been able to buy into that. I mean, after all...I have the best teacher currently on the planet...he showed me how to do it and sent me home with a video specifically oriented in what I need to work on. You'd think I'd go do what he told me and volla...I'd be breaking 80 instead of struggling to break 100.

I need to quit focusing on the results on the couse and build on the following. I am hitting shots that I could not do for Brian durning the lesson. I can take a 5i and use it with a much, much greater efficiency from anywhere within 100 +/- yds in. Same with 6, 7, 8, 9, pw, gw, lw. I can use any of these irons from any distance within this range 1000% better than before. My short game is getting better everyday. My driver is coming around too!

I'll reel it in and focus on the glass half full!

You "do it right" all the time—or close.

Supervised practice is ideal, but so is a lesson-a-day.

Just becuase of situations like yours, I am in the process of revamping my whole schedule—just to "keep up" with all my student all over the globe.

Hang in there, 30year...you had a lot of stuff to put in.

 

[shootin4par]

Been back playing golf a little over a year. Just came up and took 6 hours of lessons from Brian. My putting, chipping, pitching, and punch shot has improved tremendously (since the lessons in 3rd week of Aug). By the sound of the ball, I think I am executing the basic movement pretty darn good on these shots.

However, I can't hit a decent 3/4 to full swing to save my life.
I am getting no power. I can manage to squeeze out some good wedge and short iron shots. But they still seem to be lacking power (I am not mashing it). 5 iron and up...forget it. I am hitting them as far as a 7...really low ball flight.

if I had to take a shot in the dark I would tend to think you may not be pivoting. maybe you are shifting too much latteral and that is why you can hit crisp chips and pitches but the longer swing needs the pivot, even more then the short swing

 

[Burner]

Is Joe average because he has limited skill, limited knowledge, or a combination of both? I think it has more to do with limited knowledge and a disease called: need for instant gratification. I see some of the higher handicaps on the range and to me it looks like it would take a helluva lot of talent in order to simply HIT a golf ball with some of their swings. They manage to do it for every ball quite remarkably. I think with good information, proper practice, and patience, most people can probably get in the low 80's on a fairly easy golf course in a few years. Not a lot of people practice properly or have any patience. Two bad shots in a row and most people want to try a brand new swing thought. And given the golf channel's academy live, golf digest, etc., it seems to me a whole lot of people don't have good information either.

Matt

90% of guys who play golf will never score in the low 80s once, let alone regularly.

It takes talent, perfect, and as Brian mentioned supervised, practise, plus a smidgen of luck to get to be that good. And, a low 80s shooter is a good golfer.

 

[Bill Miracle]

So....I guess you are saying....

90% of guys who play golf will never score in the low 80s once, let alone regularly.

It takes talent, perfect, and as Brian mentioned supervised, practise, plus a smidgen of luck to get to be that good. And, a low 80s shooter is a good golfer.

A guy just starting out...that can't get to a qualified teacher once a day, once a week....shouldn't bother to try? BullSheet. I play with a number of guys that shoot 75 to 85 that never had lessons...not one! The difference is....some of them have been playing 10 years...others a lot longer.

Maybe it's the area I live but...of the people I meet, shooting under 85 is a common occurence for a ton of them. Does this 90% count Eskimos or something????

I am just starting. I am fully convinced if I never saw another instructor again, I would eventually get to a "flirting with breakin' 80s " game of golf. The key is...it's going to take longer than I want it to.

I think the average joe that dedicates himself to the game can figure it out over time and shoot a regular, decent score (85 and under).

I don't think the average joe has much of a chance of becoming a par shooter or better though. I don't know too many true scratch golfers. And at this point, that isn't even on the radar for me. I am anxious to get my game from the 25 handicap down to the 15 or better range....as soon as possible.

 

[tourdeep]

I think the average joe that dedicates himself to the game can figure it out over time and shoot a regular, decent score (85 and under).

I would agree. The dedication to making whatever swing repeat, to play its tendancies he/she may have will produce those lower scores.

And the real test would be to play it by the rules, to play it down, to putt em all out. An 8 on a par four is not an automatic 6 it you know what I mean. Then move em back one set of tees!

But the Brian's of the world (as few of em as they are ) are necessary to take it to the next level...

 

[Burner]

A guy just starting out...that can't get to a qualified teacher once a day, once a week....shouldn't bother to try? BullSheet. I play with a number of guys that shoot 75 to 85 that never had lessons...not one! The difference is....some of them have been playing 10 years...others a lot longer.

Can't find any reference in my post to not trying for whatever reason.

ARTICLES such as this one crop up regularly and they all give a contra view to that which you would have us believe.

Rhetoric is fine but facts speak for themselves and the statistical information on average golf scores, for guys who care enough about their game to record them, is out there for anyone prepared to look, look, look for it.

Most recreational golfers are just that and quite content to enjoy their day on course, playing at whatever level the can manage.

Very few guys have the commitment necessary to gaining real improvement; and of those that do very few will actually achieve it. And it will not be for the want of trying - this I know for a fact!

 

[mrodock]

90% of guys who play golf will never score in the low 80s once, let alone regularly.

It takes talent, perfect, and as Brian mentioned supervised, practise, plus a smidgen of luck to get to be that good. And, a low 80s shooter is a good golfer.

Is Joe average because he has limited skill, limited knowledge, or both? I hold that terrible mechanics is why most people will never get to the low 80's. With decent mechanics and decent practice habits, low 80's is within reach to most golfers I would figure. I don't think practice has to be anywhere near perfect in order for one to get in the low 80's regularly.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Sorry Burner, I luv ya man, but....

This man (30yrlayoff) and the countless 1000's I have helped over the year, all basically had the same problem:

H O R R I B L E -- M E C H A N I C S

The list of this 30yr was doing wrong was LONG, but, if he keeps working on it, he'll be fine.

The REAL REASON the NATIONAL HANICAP never gets any better, is becuase THOSE WHO HAVE THE ANSWERS (like me) don't have "the mike."

Imagine the JUNK we have debated recently on this site:

1. Whether or not the head should move
2. Whether or not the turned shoulder plane IS the turned shoulder plane
3. Whether or not "right forearm" takeaway is right for everyone
4. Whether or not you should be a hitter or a swinger
5. Whether or not a real FLAT LEFT WRIST is "good form"

Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reasons golfer's stink are:

1. HORRIBLE GRIPS
2. BENT LEFT WRIST at the TOP
3. SUPER OPEN CLUBFACEs at all points in the swing
4. NO AXIS TILT to speak of
5. THROWAWAY
6. NO REAL PIVOT through the ball

Fix 'em folks, then all you'll have to do is control the path and the clubface a bit more and you will BREAK 80!!!


Whew.

 

[Bill Miracle]

I agree...most of the guys I know shootin' 85 or less...

This man (30yr layoff) and the countless 1000's I have helped over the year, all basically had the same problem:

H O R R I B L E M E C H A N I C S

The list of what 30yr was doing wrong was LONG, but, if he keeps working on it, he'll be fine.

The REAL REASON the NATIONAL HANDICAP never gets any better, is becuase THOSE WHO HAVE THE ANSWERS (like me) don't have "the mike."

Imagine the JUNK we have debated recently on this site:

1. Whether or not the head should move
2. Whether or not the turned shoulder plane IS the turned shoulder plane
3. Whether or not "right forearm" takeaway is right for everyone
4. Whether or not you should be a hitter or a swinger
5. Whether or not a real FLAT LEFT WRIST is "good form"

Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reasons golfer's stink are:

1. HORRIBLE GRIPS
2. BENT LEFT WRISTs at the TOP
3. SUPER OPEN CLUBFACEs at all points in the swing
4. NO AXIS TILT to speak of
5. THROWAWAY
6. NO REAL PIVOT through the ball

Fix 'em folks, then all you'll have to do is control the path and the clubface a bit more and you will BREAK 80!!!


Whew.

Give me real hope. They have been playing for a long time and have progressed....have only progressed to a 10-15 handicap. With the dedication I plan to / have put into getting good at this game....I feel I can achieve it within a more defined period of time!! (i.e. much shorter)

I played a lot of golf as an pre-teen and teen ager. Played with blade irons and persimmon woods. Shot in the 90s as a 17 year old. Then I laid off for exactly 30 years. Getting back into the game, I found I had...

1. a HORRIBLE GRIP...too strong
2. BENT LEFT WRISTs at the TOP...and everywhere else it shouldn't be
3. SUPER OPEN CLUBFACEs at all points in the swing - especially at impact and after (steering and angled to horzintal hinging)
4. NO AXIS TILT to speak of (almost zero)
5. THROWAWAY (no lag sustain at all)
6. NO REAL PIVOT through the ball (mostly an arm backswing)

I took lessons from a couple local PGA certified instructors and NONE of these individuals pointed out ANY of the above (with the execption of a distorted version of numbe 6. After spending a couple grand trying to get better, I could see NO desired results.

Finally, I found Brian's site....TGM, etc....and realized I was buying snake oil from the local PGA certified pros. Not because Brian told me so. Because the level of communication of the swing was light years ahead of previous instruction. Ah ha...the panacea of the golf swing. After a week or so, I should be blowin' these long time hackers off the course...right???

The reality is.....it's going to take awhile to undo and ingrain these changes into MY swing (much to my dismay) and that is the frustrating part. I'm willing to work at it and do what it takes but....my expectations, coupled with my desire to be good, have been determined to be totally unrealistic.

I have excelled at many sports....baseball, football, basketball, motorcross, etc..... which means I am definitely average to above average in athleticism. I think I am above average in my desire to learn and apply instruction. So, why in the he(( after a year of playin 2-3 times a week and hitting the range another 2-3 times per week...and taking lessons...am I struggling to break 100....especially after 6 hours with Brian within the last month. Why did I seem to go backwards after spending 6 hours with Brian?

Well, ok, it's sinking in now as to why. But, that doesn't mean my expectations weren't greater. And, I still don't accept when people tell me it's going to take years and year to start shootin' in the 80's. No matter what, I definitely won't buy into that. I'll be in the 80's within the next year or die trying!!!!

What I have learned in the last 48 hours is to freakin' relax and keep trying to apply what I know today....which is light years ahead of what I know 2 months ago. I have to undo a lot of pre-programming.

Meanwhile, I also need to better understand what I think I know now and learn to incorporate it into MY swing.

My logic tells me that you receive instruction and go out and execute it within a reasonble (i.e.short) period of time. This is f$*)in with my head. My newly found understanding is...this will come when it comes. The average Joe doesn't put into this game what I do. Therefore, it takes these guys 10-20-30 years to play a little better than I am now. For me, that's not acceptable. Therefore, I'll keep learning from Brian...and whatever else I can digest on my own and use my passion for the game to motivate me along much quicker...than 10 years..but...not tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure my lack is not ability but understanding. Looking at what I know today about the golf swing...vs. what I knew about 3 months ago...is like trying to travel without wheels. I'll keep on the path I'm on, relax and start freakin' if marked results aren't there in the next 6 months or so.

Meanwhile, I'll

1. fix my HORRIBLE GRIP
2. unBENd my LEFT WRISTs at the TOP
3. close my SUPER OPEN CLUBFACEs at all points in the swing
4. develope approx 30* of AXIS TILT
5. Turn THROWAWAY into lag pressure
6. mash the ball with a REAL PIVOT through the ball

 

[Brian Manzella]

Whoa Nellie....

Relax.

Take a deep breath.

OK.

I have seen golfers go from 100 to 75 in LESS than a year.

We'll get there sooner, rather than later.

Keep twisting and Tilting.

 

[mrodock]

You'll get there 30yrlayoff. Concentrate on the process, don't put too much pressure on the results and they will come. Don't get in your own way, and at the same time, I'll try my best to follow my own advice.

Matt