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Originally Posted by Brian Manzella
I played my best golf back in 1994 & 1995.

Brian.
The numbers you posted show some really fine golf. A very rare achievement. If you had trackman then, along with all the stuff in your head now, ie.. D-Plane, things you may or may not subscribe to perhaps as rigidly or at all , would you possibly have played/scored different/better? I would think that a 59 pretty much shows you knew what you were doing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Originally Posted by Brian Manzella
I played my best golf back in 1994 & 1995.

Brian.
The numbers you posted show some really fine golf. A very rare achievement. If you had trackman then, along with all the stuff in your head now, ie.. D-Plane, things you may or may not subscribe to perhaps as rigidly or at all , would you possibly have played/scored different/better? I would think that a 59 pretty much shows you knew what you were doing.

I get board easily.

I had worked for basically 25 years to get my golf game to some sort of place where I felt my athleticism could take over and I could beat some ass.

So to speak.

The problem was, it wasn't good enough.

The it being the technique. I believe I was good enough to do what I wanted to do with my game.

The technique, looking back, was just incomplete. And yes, if I didn't know now what I didn't know then, I wouldn't look back somewhat wistfully.

I am just not going to waste a second of time doing that.

I STILL think I can come up with something that will work better.

For example, I take the 10 ball TrackMan test all the time at various yardages.

The test is based on how far you hit it in the air to a specific yardage.

Best score ever Kevin Streelman, 96. David Toms house record on my machine with two 93's. Mini-Tourist, and Manzella student Aaron Smith put up a 92 two days ago. BManz put up a 91 just to show someone who said my swing was substandard.

I have put up lots of scores in the high 80's with a draw pattern, so today, with Shields/Manzella product Jim Markovitz playing "The Turn" with me, I gave the draw pattern a whirl.

Ah....

All those guys that think a 4-6° inside-out path is cool, bless 'em.

In a "beat the pro" on Monday (I was da pro), I hit a 160 yard flagged green (#8 at ET) 15 out of my last 16 with an ace for good measure.

After nine holes, I am already back at the drawing board.

That's why I am such a good THINKER about the swing. But it doesn't help the playing.

Still looking for the elusive pattern that lets me just PLAY the way I'd like to.

 

[cmartingolf]

B, in the limited amount of time I watched you hit shots in Vegas, it's clearly apparent you have a lot of game. Massive desire to shoot sixty-nothin' everyday??? Clearly, if playing is what you really wanted to do, you would.

When you got it, you got it. You got it. The desire to grind out every last stroke??? That's a special gift.

 

[westy]

what happens if you just swing?

no coconut...
what do you get?

 

[Richie3Jack]

Brian,

If you wouldn't mind, could you go a bit more into the Trackman 'combine' test and how it works and how it determines a grade for the golfer?





3JACK

 

[Lindsey Newman]

B, in the limited amount of time I watched you hit shots in Vegas, it's clearly apparent you have a lot of game. Massive desire to shoot sixty-nothin' everyday??? Clearly, if playing is what you really wanted to do, you would.

When you got it, you got it. You got it. The desire to grind out every last stroke??? That's a special gift.

SO F'N TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To really judge that lie, to read that putt from every angle, to maticulously manage shot selection. THE GRIND is where all of the reward truly is. Shooting good scores is all about the grind. Ultra love/hate this game!

 

[matt kluck]

So True!!

Lindsey,
Great post! People who have never "ground" out the round have no grind nor will they ever enable their "what little urge they have" to better themselves.
MK

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

SO F'N TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To really judge that lie, to read that putt from every angle, to maticulously manage shot selection. THE GRIND is where all of the reward truly is. Shooting good scores is all about the grind. Ultra love/hate this game!

LOL, just become a better putter. Odds are if you can putt and REALLY putt and are hitting a bunch of greens (over 12) you should be in the 70s somewhere.

Sounds good to me

 

[Lindsey Newman]

LOL, just become a better putter. Odds are if you can putt and REALLY putt and are hitting a bunch of greens (over 12) you should be in the 70s somewhere.

Sounds good to me

Putting is huge for sure and Judge, I'm no slouch.

When you give every shot your full attention, make great decisions and feel mentally exhausted after a grinder round of 73 that could've been 78, it feels better than a cruiser 74. Just my opinion.

We've all been there - a round is teetering on the edge of explosion and you playing partners are aware of your situation. Maybe you just skanked one short right and have a medium to tough pitch out of brutal rough. You check the lie, walk up check the possible landing area and then grind out a good up and down. Your playing partners say "way to grind it" and your round is ticking up. Somehow that's really rewarding.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Too many kids I know go out to play and soon as they hit a wayward shot leave the course and go back to the safety of the range. Never learn to grind it out.

 

[jeffgladchun]

Course management is one thing (obviously pivotally important).

But I think Swing management is just as important. Hit a wayward shot, understand the fix, make the correction. A lot of trust is involved and it feels so good to get it right.

 

[cmartingolf]

Too many kids I know go out to play and soon as they hit a wayward shot leave the course and go back to the safety of the range. Never learn to grind it out.

Funny, the track I grew up on, The National in Toronto, its third green was a short distance from the clubhouse. We had a member who fancied himself a player, but wasn't. He was range pretty. If I had a nickel every time I saw him mosey back to the range after a poor start on the first three holes.

Contrary, Mike Weir, a dear old friend was the extreme grinder pit-bull if there ever was one. The thought of a wasted shot made his blood boil. Still does. Thus, you know his name today.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Too many kids I know go out to play and soon as they hit a wayward shot leave the course and go back to the safety of the range. Never learn to grind it out.

I used to be that guy - as much as I hate to admit it. It's very easy to believe that you can go out and stripe every shot, but it's not real.

The best thing I ever did:

I had been playing seriously (full time) for about 3 years. I was a huge admirer of Faldo, so when my local tour event came to town,I followed him all TWO days. What I learned was incredible for me. I watched him skank, pull hook, thin, chunk and grind his way to missing the cut by 1 shot. I remember him skeebing his first iron shot like it was yesterday. The horrible sound it made, the atrocious ball flight- all shocking to me. I thought to myself - wow - I can hit it better than that. Faldo just kept after it and came really close to making the cut.

The funny thing about that moment is it took me years afterwards to really understand that when you get on the course your entering the "terror dome". A PGA tour player struggles just like everyone else, but there is nowhere to hide. They don't get to walk off or "bag it" after nine.

The two realizations of #1 everyone struggles and #2 suck it up and grind your ass off has stuck with me every since.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Dead on Mr. Shields.

I used to be this way as well, although not as bad as some. Golf can be very 'un-fun' when you dwell on every bad shot and work fervorently to correct it so it doesn't happen again. Now that I understand D-Plane and understand controlling the face, path and low point, I don't ever quit on rounds because I know what happened and have a decent idea of how to fix it. I think the problem with a lot of golfers like juniors is that they don't know how to fix it, so they chalk it up to incorrect theories and/or timing and hand-eye coordination.




3JACK

 

[curtisj76]

The best thing I ever did:

I had been playing seriously (full time) for about 3 years. I was a huge admirer of Faldo, so when my local tour event came to town,I followed him all TWO days. What I learned was incredible for me. I watched him skank, pull hook, thin, chunk and grind his way to missing the cut by 1 shot. I remember him skeebing his first iron shot like it was yesterday. The horrible sound it made, the atrocious ball flight- all shocking to me. I thought to myself - wow - I can hit it better than that. Faldo just kept after it and came really close to making the cut.

I was JUST thinking this as well. Except I wanted to just watch it on video or something. I need to handle bad shots better mentally. I was going to try and find a tournament with Jack in it and watch him handle bad shots. If I'm correct, he was one of the best mentally correct?

 

[dbl]

Curtis, I think it would be hard to find videos of Jack grinding out 78's down to 73. For current players, you may need to watch some of the "out of contention" players then and that would be hard on weekends. Would probably need to watch Thursday and Friday rounds of tournament where there is a quite a fair mixture of players shown. If you get lucky they may show 3-4 of the best players for that side of the draw and someone they follow may be having an off day.

 

[curtisj76]

Curtis, I think it would be hard to find videos of Jack grinding out 78's down to 73. For current players, you may need to watch some of the "out of contention" players then and that would be hard on weekends. Would probably need to watch Thursday and Friday rounds of tournament where there is a quite a fair mixture of players shown. If you get lucky they may show 3-4 of the best players for that side of the draw and someone they follow may be having an off day.

I understand. What I'm really looking for is how he reacts to bad shots. If he takes a couple deep breaths or steps backs and takes another swing to figure out what he did or what. My biggest weaknesses is letting bad shots get to me.

 

[aaron_lohan]

Curtis, I think it would be hard to find videos of Jack grinding out 78's down to 73. For current players, you may need to watch some of the "out of contention" players then and that would be hard on weekends. Would probably need to watch Thursday and Friday rounds of tournament where there is a quite a fair mixture of players shown. If you get lucky they may show 3-4 of the best players for that side of the draw and someone they follow may be having an off day.

A few great grinding performances that you might find on video:
Tiger Woods at the 2004 US Open, regularly missing fairways with 2 irons and still finishes 17th
Tom Kite last round at the 92 US Open.

 

[aaron_lohan]

I understand. What I'm really looking for is how he reacts to bad shots. QUOTE]

He usually reacted by saying "oh Jack" then he would put it out of his mind. Another interesting thing is that he believes he is going to hit a certain number of bad shots per round so if he hits a few loose ones in a row he doesn't lose confidence because he knows hes going to miss a few during the course of a round.

 

[Richie3Jack]

From my experience watch and playing with some PGA Tour pros, some of them do get upset, but very very few really let it carry over to the next shot.

A lot of them act like Freddy does here after a poor shot.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUxQFs50zUo[/media]

I will agree with Haney on something he said when he was working with Barkley...to paraphrase...that when golfers get really angry it's usually because their performance isn't meeting their expectations and they raised their expectations too high.

When I start thinking I'm going to hit 17 greens and shoot 65, a bad shot or two usually sets me off more than usual.






3JACK