Moe Norman-type swing??

[ffejeff224]

Hey guys. I just wanted to know what you all thought about the Moe Norman style golf swing where you only swing on one plane. Personally, I am not too sure about it because it forces your body into possitions that it do not seem natural. At the same time, however, it seems to simplify the swing by setting the arms at set-up on the impact plane. Also, does anyone know some good drills or methods for laying the club off at the beggining of the downswing. I have always struggled with getting the shaft too steep on the downswing and this is part of the reason why I am inquiring about the Moe Norman style swing. Thanks!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hey guys. I just wanted to know what you all thought about the Moe Norman style golf swing where you only swing on one plane. Personally, I am not too sure about it because it forces your body into possitions that it do not seem natural. At the same time, however, it seems to simplify the swing by setting the arms at set-up on the impact plane. Also, does anyone know some good drills or methods for laying the club off at the beggining of the downswing. I have always struggled with getting the shaft too steep on the downswing and this is part of the reason why I am inquiring about the Moe Norman style swing. Thanks!

1. NOBODY has ever swung the club on anything close to one plane.

2. It simplifies nothing having the hands high. It encourages very square shoulders at impact—a DEATH MOVE for many.

3. Laying the club off in the transition is something you have, or if you learn, you will wish you didn't.

Just learn to do WHAT YOU NEED.

Period.

 

[SteveT]

Moe Norman's swing changed when he hit old age and he became sort of paunchy. He looked like he windmilled his driver swing when I saw him in person at a demo session. Saw him twice and on the first occasion he swung a persimmon driver with about 1/4 inch of lead tape covering the entire driver sole ... his driver swingweight must have been off the scale!!! The poor guy was trying to improve his driving distance with 'mass' instead of 'velocity' which he was losing with age. It happens to all of us..!!!

I saw him several years later when he was commissioned by Titleist, and then he was swinging a regular Ti driver. A few years later, I saw him interviewed on TV, and he was asked if he had any instruction help and he said he did. Moe apparently liked to show his homemade golfswing to instructors he respected. He said he was learning to clear his hips more to generate more power ... and this was when he was in his 60's..!!!

His 'natural' swing was nothing more than a more upright swing posture and reaching out with his arms .. which looked like windmilling to me. He was a fantastic golfer in his prime.

 

[greenfree]

Moe Norman's swing changed when he hit old age and he became sort of paunchy. He looked like he windmilled his driver swing when I saw him in person at a demo session. Saw him twice and on the first occasion he swung a persimmon driver with about 1/4 inch of lead tape covering the entire driver sole ... his driver swingweight must have been off the scale!!! The poor guy was trying to improve his driving distance with 'mass' instead of 'velocity' which he was losing with age. It happens to all of us..!!!

I saw him several years later when he was commissioned by Titleist, and then he was swinging a regular Ti driver. A few years later, I saw him interviewed on TV, and he was asked if he had any instruction help and he said he did. Moe apparently liked to show his homemade golfswing to instructors he respected. He said he was learning to clear his hips more to generate more power ... and this was when he was in his 60's..!!!

His 'natural' swing was nothing more than a more upright swing posture and reaching out with his arms .. which looked like windmilling to me. He was a fantastic golfer in his prime.

There's some incorrect info in that post about Moe. He never had his clubs heavy to add mass to gain distance it was for accuracy as he believed the club would waver less and he stated that in a video. Also in a video honoring Moe that is on u-tube he actually says he does not want to move his hips around as that throws his swing all over the place he wanted quite hips and he was either 70 or near 70 then. He said he rode the line he hated twisting. Even if it wasn't totally what he actually did this was what he wanted and said as much.

 

[SteveT]

There's some incorrect info in that post about Moe. He never had his clubs heavy to add mass to gain distance it was for accuracy as he believed the club would waver less and he stated that in a video. Also in a video honoring Moe that is on u-tube he actually says he does not want to move his hips around as that throws his swing all over the place he wanted quite hips and he was either 70 or near 70 then. He said he rode the line he hated twisting. Even if it wasn't totally what he actually did this was what he wanted and said as much.

Old Moe had a tendency to exaggerate in his old age, like saying "300 yards" after hitting a ball a tad over 200 yards!!!

As for the "wavering" of the swing, that would make sense if you had a "windmilling" style swing with a long and unsupported swing radius. All that extra ballast on the bottom of his persimmon driver also helped him raise the ball trajectory for his lower swing speed. Moe knew it.

If he said he wanted quiet hips, that could mean he couldn't sustain a vigorous hip rotation any more due to something like arthritis in his hips. Too bad Moe couldn't establish himself on the PGA tour in his youth due to his flawed character. He was amazing.

 

[greenfree]

Old Moe had a tendency to exaggerate in his old age, like saying "300 yards" after hitting a ball a tad over 200 yards!!!

As for the "wavering" of the swing, that would make sense if you had a "windmilling" style swing with a long and unsupported swing radius. All that extra ballast on the bottom of his persimmon driver also helped him raise the ball trajectory for his lower swing speed. Moe knew it.

If he said he wanted quiet hips, that could mean he couldn't sustain a vigorous hip rotation any more due to something like arthritis in his hips. Too bad Moe couldn't establish himself on the PGA tour in his youth due to his flawed character. He was amazing.

The quite hips he stated that started when he was 19yrs. old so it didn't have anything to do with old age, it was a part of his method. I think he was a great character.

 

[SteveT]

The quite hips he stated that started when he was 19yrs. old so it didn't have anything to do with old age, it was a part of his method. I think he was a great character.

I distinctly remember his friend Lorne Rubenstein interviewing him on being instructed and told to clear his hips faster, which Moe was trying to apparently do to gain distance. This was just after Titleist put Moe on their payroll.

I don't know if he tried to do it but he sounded like he was taking it to heart. Moe was stubborn, but he could be influenced by people who he thought were better than him.

 

[greenfree]

I distinctly remember his friend Lorne Rubenstein interviewing him on being instructed and told to clear his hips faster, which Moe was trying to apparently do to gain distance. This was just after Titleist put Moe on their payroll.

I don't know if he tried to do it but he sounded like he was taking it to heart. Moe was stubborn, but he could be influenced by people who he thought were better than him.

Well i guess he gave up on that experiment, in the vid on u-tube he states the opposite and that's not the only time he said that about the hips i have many vids of Moe and he has mentioned he hates twisting of the hips and makes fun of it in a video shot by Dr. Jim Suttie when Moe was age 65. I have no idea what Moe thought only what he said that's been on video or i heard him say in person at a clinic.

 

[aaron_lohan]

Bear in mind his swing when he was in his prime was less idiosyncratic than the one he had when he was in 60s.

 

[dlam]

Saw Moe Norman give a clinic many many years ago at our local golf course.
He was past his prime then but gave a great show.
He could still hit signs and flagstick from over 200 yards out.
He could do with a draw or fade at will.


Moe's set up is unique particularly reaching out and his high hands at set up. Kinda like Nancy Lopez.
I never played well with the left wrist hinging down and out at address.

The other extreme would be a Mac O'Grady or Ryan Moore.
I believe low wrist set is physically easier to move the club into the proper slot in the backswing.

 

[greenfree]

Bear in mind his swing when he was in his prime was less idiosyncratic than the one he had when he was in 60s.

Stiil hit it on a string regardless.

 

[SteveT]

Unfortunately, Moe was not a very congenial person ... he could not forge associations, nor could he practice empathy. He was not sociable except for those he trusted, and they were very few. He was personality-handicapped and that was why he was not embraced by the Canadian golf associations. He was a tragic character in the game of golf.

 

[greenfree]

Unfortunately, Moe was not a very congenial person ... he could not forge associations, nor could he practice empathy. He was not sociable except for those he trusted, and they were very few. He was personality-handicapped and that was why he was not embraced by the Canadian golf associations. He was a tragic character in the game of golf.

Oh well.

 

[SteveT]

Oh well.

If Kuykendall at Natural Golf hadn't 'discovered' Moe, he would have had no international recognition. Now he is a legend of the game ... with well deserved recognition. However, from what I saw of Moe's swing, I would not recommend it a model swing for anybody but older men who have little to no X-factor separation, and a soft belly that forces them to have a more upright swing ... and I that covers most golfers worldwide.

All that SA arm swinging traced back to Moe is just a cover-up for stiff golfers who have difficulty bending over at the hips because they have a compromised back due mostly to their paunch. Those golfers were the target market for NG. Moe's legendary record in Canada was exploited by NG as confirmation of the effectiveness of their SA swing arm mechanics. Sort of like back-engineering ...!!!

 

[greenfree]

If Kuykendall at Natural Golf hadn't 'discovered' Moe, he would have had no international recognition. Now he is a legend of the game ... with well deserved recognition. However, from what I saw of Moe's swing, I would not recommend it a model swing for anybody but older men who have little to no X-factor separation, and a soft belly that forces them to have a more upright swing ... and I that covers most golfers worldwide.

All that SA arm swinging traced back to Moe is just a cover-up for stiff golfers who have difficulty bending over at the hips because they have a compromised back due mostly to their paunch. Those golfers were the target market for NG. Moe's legendary record in Canada was exploited by NG as confirmation of the effectiveness of their SA swing arm mechanics. Sort of like back-engineering ...!!!

Yeah Kuykendall discovered Moe, that's hillarious. Moe was always there and people knew about him before J.K. and as for copying Moe's swing he himself warned people not to bother trying to copy him, so he didn't hold out his swing as a model to copy, other's did. Whether you or anyone recommends or doesn't recommend his swing to copy is of no matter, doesn't affect what he did in golf, it's on record.

Maybe his clubs were too stiff ,not enough lead or lag, or is that droop, maybe ladies clubs was the answer....lol.

 

[SteveT]

Yeah Kuykendall discovered Moe, that's hillarious. Moe was always there and people knew about him before J.K. and as for copying Moe's swing he himself warned people not to bother trying to copy him, so he didn't hold out his swing as a model to copy, other's did. Whether you or anyone recommends or doesn't recommend his swing to copy is of no matter, doesn't affect what he did in golf, it's on record.

Maybe his clubs were too stiff ,not enough lead or lag, or is that droop, maybe ladies clubs was the answer....lol.

Moe was only known in Canada, and once he tied into NG, he became famous in the USA ... "Pipeline Moe" ... the golfer who proved that NG was legit ..!!!

Those who try to copy Moe's SA swing are mostly rotund types who rotate their hips and shoulders in unison ... and search for power from their arms ... age and obesity will do that to ya ...!!!

The only thing stiff about aged Moe was his body rotation .. he struggled with his core action, and that was evident in his demos and videos. Nevertheless, he was able to adapt to his aged body and control his shots to his credit, albeit with a loss of distance. The guy never stopped his obsession with practice. Moe was a true 'golfer'.

 

[greenfree]

I still say ladies clubs are "The Answer. " and will fix that stiffness problem....LOL.

 

[Wilson!]

Other than Norman's eccentricities, do any of you play with his palm grip, his single axis, his wide stance, his straight legs?

I do have one thing in common with Moe: at stance, I place the club face really behind the ball, good ten inches with the driver, progressively less with the rest of the clubs. I don't know why I do this and for some strange reason I can't do otherwise. Sometimes they ask me how I can contact the ball at all. My answer: at the top we all place the club somewhere behind our back and we somehow manage to contact the ball all the same

 

[aaron_lohan]

Stiil hit it on a string regardless.

True, but he was better in his 30s he added a few eccentricities to his swing, if you wanted to copy him I would copy his best swing.

 

[coolboss]

I found this slow motion of Moe's golf swing in a youtube video. Quite a different swing from what I often see in many videos.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBX1LnOWCI&feature=related[/media]