More Hogan

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birdie_man

birdie_man

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Did Hogan use the same flat plane for all his clubs?

I ask because I've heard he hit it pretty low.

If I swing like he does (or like he seems to anyway- to my understanding) with the driver (STT- roll the clubface open and to the inside) I can hit it great. But it is very high. Even with an 8.5 degree driver. Like HIGH. I can hit it like 280-300 like this- pretty solid. And as Hogan strived for- never to the right- if you get quick or tense it goes to the right.

But it seems like I can't have any ballflight but very high...the's THE problem.

I try to arch my left wrist on the downswing like Hogan does...as you said Brian, "Hogan's secret is going from a bent left wrist to an arched left wrist." I've been trying to do it through the ball and also have been trying to do it very early (and smoothly) in the startdown. Not much success...not sure if I just need more practice or if I'm missing something.

Now...when I swing like this...my left wrist is not bent at the End (of the backswing) though- it's flat. But the clubface is still open (rolled open on the takeaway).

I just don't see how he could possibly hit his short irons solid like this. Or pitches. It would be very difficult anyway.

I get high fluffers off to the right with short irons...especially if I try to play it towards the middle of my stance. Very sweeping blow. The thing though is that if I try to hit down on it (which seems very unnatural from such a flat shallow plane) it goes further to the right.

Any help is VERY VERY appreciated from those who have studied Ben's great swing and tried to understand it (I think lots of people are very intrigued by his swing too BTW).

Brian, Mr. Alford, ANYONE ELSE...please and thankya. And I'm not trying to force myself into his move BTW...I've always naturally opened the face quite a bit on the backswing- and done pretty well with it. I'm just a guy trying to sort out his swing and gain understanding so I can get to a point where I can settle on what's right for me.

Thanks yall.

-Paul
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I also want to note, because I found it interesting, that this swing does not work the same way- not at all- if you use any grip much stronger than Hogan's. Especially if the right hand is stronger. My hands always kind of find their way back to a weak grip (like Hogan's) on their own when I swing this way.

Just wanted to add that so if anyone wants to respond they can get the whole picture.

-Paul
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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What weird things now? I'm experimenting that's all.

I'd like your advice really...David- if you think something's wrong with what I've found or how I'm approaching this let me know what it is.

Based on how I understand his swing right now (obviously I don't understand it fully or else I'd know the answers myself) I mainly can't understand how, with what looks like the same basic motion/plane as his driver swing, he can hit his iron shots like some people have described as "low".

http://www.geocities.com/sixbeeonedee/hoganHit.mpg

---Like this clip. I can't do that so well from that same plane. Too flat. It wants none of that nice descending blow...for a good straight shot I get more of a sweep, like I said.

I can understand how he never hooks it...but this is killing me.

The rest of what I wrote is just extra stuff describing what I'm doing basically.

BTW if I make the same swing straight up the turned shoulder plane I can hit a punch shot with my short irons...

So why don't I just do that? Hell if I know...stubborn I guess. I want to know.

-Paul
 
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David Alford

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I meant the weird things you think Hogan did.

His swing, like every great swing is simple. So simple a 12 yr. old kid can understand it.

That is true of any great swing. Now, I'll admit understanding the golf swing in all variations is a tough matter.

But, my unwavering belief in the utter simplicity of ANY particular swing is one reason I never paid much attention to TGM and why I am fundamentally at odds with many here.

The truth is, genius is in simplicity, not complexity - more often than not.

I'll add, Mr. Hogan probably didn't understand the golf swing in all it's variations as many who post here.

For example, his (apprent) understanding of swing plane was simplistic. But, the golf ball didn't care.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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You know what.

First of all David...thanks for that. I think that's just what I needed to hear- that's the kick in the ass I needed. I'm gonna take it easy on the tinkering...because that's all that it is now. You made me realize that I can hit the ball and I don't need to be so anal anymore. I should be past that. It's just my perfectionist nature to do so...but I think I've beat enough balls and read enough stuff to know what I'm doing now. Honestly, thanks.

I'm gonna try a simpler, more natural approach and fix my swing only when something's actually wrong.

...

I don't agree with what you say about TGM though still. I think it's place in instruction is HUGE...and that it's needed desperately really. All I want to say is knowledge is power...I've learned lots. You're prolly right...one may not have to apply all of it activly but that's because you can learn what you need to be doing...and also learn what you don't need to be doing. Either way, the confusion is only cleared up by real information.

Or else viscious trial and error and/or blindly settling for what just might be less than you're true best (without you knowing it of course). But, as I've hinted to above, I've never been a guy to say "Ah well...good enough for now." At least, not with something as important to me as golf is.

I dunno...I just think that the extra work and effort is worth it to make sure you do it right. After all, I have lots of time. No rush. Just good golf. At least I have made every mistake possible already so I won't stray in the future. :) That's the way I look at it.

I'm not sure how natural of a golfer you are or what kind of approach you take to learning/improving but TGM has been perfect for me- really. You obviously have done well with your own swing (I hear you have a swing very similar to Hogan's, among other patterns you can perform).
----------------------------------------------------

And Brian thanks too man. I may have misinterpreted his plane. I guess there may be a true reason behind why it wasn't working too well.

I'll report back with progress...I think I've got it this time!...lol...no, really. [8D]

This time for sure...
 
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David Alford

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I'm just saying (w/o going into details), Hogan was a lot more conventional than most believe.

Brian is correct in that Hogan fooled a lot of people. How much was intentional is certainly an interesting topic.

I'm not at odds with a comprehensive view of golf swing possibilities. Not at all. We have something in common in
our mutual quests.
 
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