Mr. Manzella: What's wrong with Haney's parallel plane swing theory?

[lia41985]

Hi,

Just joined the forum and this is my first post. I've really enjoyed the forum so far. Thank you for providing us with this resource Mr. Manzella.

I have a question for you: what do you see as the flaw of Hank Haney's parallel plane swing theory? I know no other player I've seen swings like Tiger does and maybe it's because the theory is flawed. But I'm wondering, what's wrong with the theory itself? Why don't you think it's valid?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Welcome to the place...

...what do you see as the flaw of Hank Haney's parallel plane swing theory?

Staring with the fact that 99.9% of all golfers in the Hall-of-Fame don't have the shaft on the same angle at ADDRESS and IMPACT—nevermind the rest of the swing (more on that later)—the theory is just JUNK science based on things like PARALAX.

I once "swung" a club that was controlled by a $30,000 machine that FORCED me to use PARALLEL PLANES. It was so un-golf-like, so totally impossible physically and mentally, that THAT alone would have disqualified it.

But the facts of the matter is simple:

You couldn't PUNCH A HOLE IN A SHET OF LOOSE LEAF PAPER with a punch that shifted plane parallel to the orignial one.

 

[lia41985]

Thanks for your input. I really think Tiger's ball-striking hasn't been quite the same as when he was working with Butch--the exception being the 2006 British Open.

 

[otto6457]

Since Brian has already commented I will add that after years of working with Haney and his philosophy I am here.

I realized that the Haney philosophy did not address the real flaws in my swing. I can make a fine Haney swing, but I don't have a good golf swing.

Big difference.

 

[lia41985]

Otto,
Mind discussing in more detail your lessons with Haney? Thanks in advance.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The proof is in the pudding....you know why Haney had or still has the "driver yips?"

It's because of his parallel plane idea. If you do it, how he wants you to do it, you'll shank it. Tiger has proved that a few times already. So you end up trying to find some way to NOT lag that hosel and his driver yip is a symptom.

 

[otto6457]

Otto,
Mind discussing in more detail your lessons with Haney? Thanks in advance.

I don't mind discussing my time with Haney, but I don't want to use the forum to air my dirty laundry.

PM me if you want more detailed info on my years with the Haney swing.

 

[shortgamer]

I don't mind discussing my time with Haney, but I don't want to use the forum to air my dirty laundry.

PM me if you want more detailed info on my years with the Haney swing.

You don't have to air your dirty laundry on the man himself but more how the pattern didn't fit you. Was there just one pattern or were there different ways of getting you into better impact?

 

[Mike O]

Parallel Plane Theory

I'd just like to hear the basic "Theory" in regards to the Parallel Plane- If someone could post that - so I don't have to buy a book to figure it out.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Good Question Mike!

Here ya go:

The club shaft plane at address is the "master plane angle."

The club is ALWAYS parallel to this original angle.

The club shifts to higher planes on the backswing and lower on the downswing, but they are ALWAYS parallel to this original angle.

 

[protagonist]

Here ya go:

The club shaft plane at address is the "master plane angle."

The club is ALWAYS parallel to this original angle.

The club shifts to higher planes on the backswing and lower on the downswing, but they are ALWAYS parallel to this original angle.

Holy Crap!

 

[JamesBurg]

I find it distressing that some nationally known instructors are not good instructors at all.

Jim Flick thinks that the arms should swing the shoulders. May work for him. That's backwards for me.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Who Nellie!

I am abosutely not saying Hank Haney is a poor teacher.

There are 40,000 teachers of golf in the USA, and probably another 20,000 around the world.

That's 60,000 teachers.

He is easily in the top 1% of teachers.

I told Hank to his face, at a lunch we had together, that his students swing sequences were better than Lead's, Smith's, Flick's, Harmon's, Ballard's, and McLean's.

Of course this was 4 or 5 years ago, and the other guys have gotten better.

My official stance on Hank:

• I think his PLANE THEORY is incorrect.

• His insistance on that "out in front of you" takeaway isn't for everyone.

• His statement that working on lag and impact alignments—or even looking at or videoing from the front view—was "the biggest waste of time in golf instruction and totally overrated," is partially wrong at best.

• His insistance on his "stock" pattern has hurt Tiger's career.

• Like almost all of the "famous" teachers, I have watched him teach live, and in Hank's case, quite a bit. Like almost all the "famous" teachers, he is very overrrated. I watched him teach a bunch of pros once at a clinic, where not one person hit it better, he told one really good strong player that went from pounding it to missing it under his instruction, "If you don't want to try, let's get someone else up here." His lesson with Mike Finney—who warmed up for Hank by absolutely striping a couple 5-irons about 195 on a line— included the following: "You are the kind of player who would qualify for a US Open, then shoot 85-85," and posing him in TOTALLY goofy positions to try to get Mike to hit it higher. Mike didn't.

• He told me that Tom Bartlett, who played in a 8-hole sudden death playoff against at-the-time Haney student Hank Kuehne in the PGA Tour school, that Tom had "no chance" in the playoff, and that Hank hit his 2-iron 50 yards past Tom's driver. I informed Hank of the fact that if you last 8 holes in a sudden death playoff, that you—by default—"had a chance." And the "Brinks truck" would be ready for the contest where Hank Kuehne hits his best 2-iron, and Tom wlks up 50-yards and gets to hit Driver for a win.

• In a live teach off, I'd win easy. ​

There ya go.

Remember Hank fans, read the first part again. Hank is a very good teacher...

 

[Trane]

Is this theory the same as.....??

Guys, sorry if this is a stupid question...., but.....

is this the same as always having the club either pointing at the baseline or parallel to it???

Just wondering..

TY

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Guys, sorry if this is a stupid question...., but.....

is this the same as always having the club either pointing at the baseline or parallel to it???

Just wondering..

TY

No.

 

[The Return of NAT]

Here ya go:

The club shaft plane at address is the "master plane angle."

The club is ALWAYS parallel to this original angle.

The club shifts to higher planes on the backswing and lower on the downswing, but they are ALWAYS parallel to this original angle.

I-Talian Stallion...

That's "IT".... my problem in my coaching...I'm not teaching my students to hit the ball with the shaft...

I've been wrong ....trying to get my students with the center of gravity of the club of on-plane...

Now offering 18 years of REFUNDS!!!

 

[birdie_man]

I informed Hank of the fact that if you last 8 holes in a sudden death playoff, that you—by default—"had a chance." And the "Brinks truck" would be ready for the contest where Hank Kuehne hits his best 2-iron, and Tom wlks up 50-yards and gets to hit Driver for a win.

You actually told him to get the Brinks truck ready?

Gooooooood job.....bahhhh hahaha......