My days with Brian and trackman....whoa! (now with ultra-high speed video!)

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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
As promised, I am posting up some Trackman data from my trip to New Orleans. Many thanks to Brian and Tom for the hospitality, it was alot of fun. I went down with an "anti block fade" pattern that has a SDish backswing and NHA downswing. My fear is getting "under" and in light of recent Trackman data, i was making certain I was hitting down and left if the ball was on the ground. So.....

9 Iron
Attack Angle -7.5
Plane Line -4.2
True Path -0.3
Face Angle -1.3

6 Iron
Attack Angle -6.4
Plane Line -4.6
True Path -0.7
Face -1.3

Driver
Attack Angle -2.4
Plane Line -1.4
True Path 0.8
Face Angle -1.2

So as you can see, my left plane line was cancelled out for the most part by my downward hit, making my true path for all clubs very close to zero. Pretty good huh? Little pull draw,alot of straight shots, opposite of push fade. I'm golden, right?

Not so fast.

In the course of my grinding, i had gotten too far left and too far down. I kept hearing Brian say "too much popout, too much popout". And he was right. Later that day, we played on the windy North course at "the Park". Granted, I hadn't played in 4 solid months but I felt like I couldn't bore the ball thru the wind and didnt hit many real good high quality shots. And there's a real good reason why. In trying to get down and left, I over did it and got my spin numbers to high with all clubs and landing angle too high, which was part of the Trackman report. So a good session with Brian, a little less popout shallowed me out and I'm feeling great.

As far as Trackman..............unreal. The data was soooo helpful. No grasping at straws, just cold hard facts. It leaves absolutely no doubts as to what you need to work on. Its absolutely incredible.

Any thoughts?
 
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niblick1

New
Very interesting.

Kevin, does that face angle number mean delofting or orientation left or something else? Wait, that must mean amount aimed left, correct?

So what is your standard shot - fade that occasionally misses pretty straight left?

Imagine the help what someone with great swing knowledge, ball flight rules knowledge and trackman use/knowledge could do to help PGA (and LPGA) players. Talk about fine-tuning and having an edge.
 
Last edited:
Steve Greffen

Steve Greffen

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Kevin Shields said:
As promised, I am posting up some Trackman data from my trip to New Orleans. Many thanks to Brian and Tom for the hospitality, it was alot of fun. I went down with an "anti block fade" pattern that has a SDish backswing and NHA downswing. My fear is getting "under" and in light of recent Trackman data, i was making certain I was hitting down and left if the ball was on the ground. So.....

9 Iron
Attack Angle -7.5
Plane Line -4.2
True Path -0.3
Face Angle -1.3

6 Iron
Attack Angle -6.4
Plane Line -4.6
True Path -0.7
Face -1.3

Driver
Attack Angle -2.4
Plane Line -1.4
True Path 0.8
Face Angle -1.2

So as you can see, my left plane line was cancelled out for the most part by my downward hit, making my true path for all clubs very close to zero. Pretty good huh? Little pull draw,alot of straight shots, opposite of push fade. I'm golden, right?

Not so fast.

In the course of my grinding, i had gotten too far left and too far down. I kept hearing Brian say "too much popout, too much popout". And he was right. Later that day, we played on the windy North course at "the Park". Granted, I hadn't played in 4 solid months but I felt like I couldn't bore the ball thru the wind and didnt hit many real good high quality shots. And there's a real good reason why. In trying to get down and left, I over did it and got my spin numbers to high with all clubs and landing angle too high, which was part of the Trackman report. So a good session with Brian, a little less popout shallowed me out and I'm feeling great.

As far as Trackman..............unreal. The data was soooo helpful. No grasping at straws, just cold hard facts. It leaves absolutely no doubts as to what you need to work on. Its absolutely incredible.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Great information Kevin, and for you great to have Brian to bounce the information off of! Couple questions so that I can know if I am understanding it right. The attack angle is the degree of steepness coming into the ball I assume as the angle decreases with the longer clubs. The face angle is the amount the clubface is open or closed at impact and in your case it is open slightly right? True path is your clubhead path into the ball which is close to zero which with the clubface alignment something close to the NHA. Right? now what does the plane line represent in numbers? Cant get my head around that.

Also I thought popout was in the backswing with the club getting behind your hands but I would think it is different in this case. What was the popout you were fixing?

Thanks Kevin and have fun in Florida!! Good luck.

Steve
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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kevin, im about as close as you are at pulling the trigger and getting a trackman. how useful for the average golfer?
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

New
When I was reading those numbers I thought you were coming down really steep at the ball. I suffer from the opposite problem. Did a Trackman fitting a few days ago and my 7-iron angle of attack was -3.2*. My problem is that I hit it high (my instructor and I are working on that), so when I read the attack angle numbers I said "wow, I wish I could do that" (except for the Driver numbers since you're supposed to hit upward).

And yes, Trackman is beyond cool.



3JACK
 
P

pieman

New
two questions:
1. how does angle of attack make a difference in direction, and
2. couldn't you make the same assumptions if you didn't have trackman and just watched ballflight outside?
thanks
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
niblick1 said:
Very interesting.

Kevin, does that face angle number mean delofting or orientation left or something else? Wait, that must mean amount aimed left, correct?

So what is your standard shot - fade that occasionally misses pretty straight left?

Imagine the help what someone with great swing knowledge, ball flight rules knowledge and trackman use/knowledge could do to help PGA (and LPGA) players. Talk about fine-tuning and having an edge.
Click to expand...

The face means left. I was hitting a little pull draw into a left to right wind. My shot is pretty straight ...usually. I just dont like to start the ball right. And yes, someone who can really teach would be dangerous with this thing.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Bolt said:
Great information Kevin, and for you great to have Brian to bounce the information off of! Couple questions so that I can know if I am understanding it right. The attack angle is the degree of steepness coming into the ball I assume as the angle decreases with the longer clubs. The face angle is the amount the clubface is open or closed at impact and in your case it is open slightly right? True path is your clubhead path into the ball which is close to zero which with the clubface alignment something close to the NHA. Right? now what does the plane line represent in numbers? Cant get my head around that.

Also I thought popout was in the backswing with the club getting behind your hands but I would think it is different in this case. What was the popout you were fixing?

Thanks Kevin and have fun in Florida!! Good luck.

Steve
Click to expand...

Yes, the angle should decrease the longer the club. My face was about -1.3 CLOSED. The plane line is just the baseline I am tracing through the ball which alot was cancelled by the amount of downward hit, making the true path close to zero.

Popout is moving the grip end farther away from you. You dont have to roll the clubhead to do it. I carry my hands away sometime because as a kid i aimed right picked it up and hit a pull. I am just continually working toward "normal". I think Brian is posting up some swings so you will be able to see.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
ggsjpc said:
kevin, im about as close as you are at pulling the trigger and getting a trackman. how useful for the average golfer?
Click to expand...

We were talking about the level of golfer that is "Trackman-able". Unless the person is disinterested or the faults are sooo obvious, you can benefit from teaching on this thing for anyone. the numbers are just so helpful. Its almost like cheating. But definately the better the player the more useful. And im not talking about scratch, just people who can put a move on the ball. But for scratch level, unreal help.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
pieman said:
two questions:
1. how does angle of attack make a difference in direction, and
2. couldn't you make the same assumptions if you didn't have trackman and just watched ballflight outside?
thanks
Click to expand...

Every plane line is straight, whether its left or right. So if you hit down you are still going out to the bottom. The steeper the plane angle, the less out.

But they would be just that, assumptions. So if you really know the D plane, yes. But......the launch, spin and descent anles were the critical factor. Most students have no idea so to see that a hooker is swing straight and hitting down X number is the cause would be invaluable. We couldnt believe how much down on the driver we were hitting....except brian.
 
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pieman

New
thanks for the info, kevin. there's a chance i may have access to a trackman. how many swings would you think would be appropriate for a good analysis?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
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huestisc

huestisc

New
Just curious

Thanks for sharing your data with us Kevin, it's very informative. How much variance in the numbers is there with the same club and doing the same swing? The numbers you posted are averages, or "typical" middle of the pack readings?

If you really try to do something different (swing more left/right, try to hit an intential draw/fade) or if you make corrections on the fly based on the numbers, how much can you move them?
 
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