dorndiggity
New
YOU ROCK!!!
My Manzella Trip Report....I'm back
- Thread starter Jim Kobylinski
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dorndiggity
New
Alright, I wish my sister didn't hijack my digital camera, but just to make sure I'm getting it right, I'll try to explain what I saw on my VHS camcorder and hopefully I don't come off like an idiot. On video tonight, I matched David frame by frame and was in the exact position relative to the turned shoulder plane as this sequence all the way to impact (minus the fully rotated hip) and then my hands swept left or inside of the turned shoulder plane while the clubhead remained on it. As the club exits the body, the shaft and clubhead is on the turned shoulder plane and the hands follow right up it where they finish. Basically, I remain on the turned shoulder plane throughout the swing with the hands leaving briefly after impact as I swing "left of the wall", but returning to that line as I reach the finish position. Is this what would normally be seen from someone using the UP/DOWN/LEFT method?
Thanks!!!
Thanks!!!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
There are lots better swing sequences of David than this one.
dorndiggity
New
I know, but it was convenient and served my purpose.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
How are you hitting it Jimbo?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
brian...just got back from a weekend of golf....i'll report more later. It wasn't good LOL....BUT i did find it near the end of the weekend. i'll explain later
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Ok....report from the weekend of golf:
HORRIBLE....my little tendencies i came to you with last week showed up this weekend and i was topping just about every shot. Like a bad case of the shanks, except i had the thins or the tops lol.
However towards sunday a friend helped me and told me i was taking it way outside and setting up with my hands too high like i was when i came ot see you.
So i started practicing in the shop with a cardboard box and using the "up the wall" takeaway and i was crashing into the wall A LOT. So i was really practicing the takeaway to get it right. However i feel that going "up the wall" is too close my outside takeaway bad move and i settled on a slightly (very slightly) more inside takeaway while employing a dragaway takeaway.
Once i started doing that contact was better but low. So then i noticed i was laid off again. Once i got my backswing back on plane it was MONEY. Couldn't stop flushing shots.
Then it dawned on me that what i was doing in the shop is what i was doing in the fall. Very slightly inside takeaway, with an almost immeidately folding right elbow that takes me to the top and keeps me on plane. So i started working on that and on sunday (i played friday, saturday, sunday) i almost made my first hole in one on a 143 yard par 3.
So i just need to practice it a little more and i'll be fine. I know you said that going inside is no good with the swing but it is very very slightly inside and keeps me away from the outside move which LITERALLY kills any chance of a good shot.
I plan to play a little this weekend if the weather is good and i'll report back again.
oh, also i am starting to learn how to vary my driver trajectory by how much i tilt through impact like you said. It made it very easy to hit low boring draws into a 30mph wind i was playing in sat/sun
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The "up the wall" backswing (turning shoulder plane), is very dependent on a flat shoulder turn. Something has to get the club inside.
Sounds like you figured a couple of things out, which is an important point:
The PLAYER (student), esp. one with some good knowledge, need to experiment themselves to find out how the best way is for them.
Jim can explain HITTING/SWINGING/single and double shifts/never slice again and never hook again patterns and probably a couple of more.
He knows the three imperatives and can execute all three hinges in the short game.
Practice, Jim....practice and PLAY!
Sounds like you figured a couple of things out, which is an important point:
The PLAYER (student), esp. one with some good knowledge, need to experiment themselves to find out how the best way is for them.
Jim can explain HITTING/SWINGING/single and double shifts/never slice again and never hook again patterns and probably a couple of more.
He knows the three imperatives and can execute all three hinges in the short game.
Practice, Jim....practice and PLAY!
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I "believe" i still get there i just have a more 'abrupt' lifting/folding move of the right elbow to get there. If i try "up the wall" i have a tendency to do two things:
1) get too flat (arms)
2) get too outside
So i just go inside the wall a hair and then fold that right arm quickly and i'm back to my normal plane where my hands are i'd say a little inside my right shoulder.
So i'd guess i say i use a shoulder turn takeaway-right forearm pickup combo to get to the top. But it works and its very repeatable for me. If i wasn't still so sick i'd go hit some balls today and see if i have it worked out.
oztrainee
New
Question,
I was told that open shoulder setup would be good for all chip and pitch shots, and more to it we can hit some full shot with open shoulder max. 8 to 9 iron. otherwise it will lose a bit of distance. I do realise that open shoulder will give you a better impact angle where you will have more chance in having a flat left wrist. So why on earth that we can't use open shoulder on Longer iron?
Club face control
In chip, pitch and punch shot (Ben's favourite), we learnt that the hand control is very much a rythum rather then hand motion. In TGM if I am correct, the hand motion should be driven by arm and pivot and not hand and wrist. Could some one explain a bit more on "hand control pivot" Obviouly I do understand we have to educate our hands to work along with the pivot, but do we have to do anything such as"hand control pivot" on Automatic release?
I was told that open shoulder setup would be good for all chip and pitch shots, and more to it we can hit some full shot with open shoulder max. 8 to 9 iron. otherwise it will lose a bit of distance. I do realise that open shoulder will give you a better impact angle where you will have more chance in having a flat left wrist. So why on earth that we can't use open shoulder on Longer iron?
Club face control
In chip, pitch and punch shot (Ben's favourite), we learnt that the hand control is very much a rythum rather then hand motion. In TGM if I am correct, the hand motion should be driven by arm and pivot and not hand and wrist. Could some one explain a bit more on "hand control pivot" Obviouly I do understand we have to educate our hands to work along with the pivot, but do we have to do anything such as"hand control pivot" on Automatic release?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
The more open the shoulders are, the more you're likely to take the club to the outside at takeaway and vice versa with square shoulders and tilt.
Thats why when you're trying to take the club "up the wall" you don't want to go inside so you setup with more open shoulders.
---
As far as hand control pivot, you simply have your mind in your hands versus the pivot. A good example of a pivot controlled hand motion would be to turn your body back and turn it through without doing anything with your hands. So from that you should understand the opposite.
Thats why when you're trying to take the club "up the wall" you don't want to go inside so you setup with more open shoulders.
---
As far as hand control pivot, you simply have your mind in your hands versus the pivot. A good example of a pivot controlled hand motion would be to turn your body back and turn it through without doing anything with your hands. So from that you should understand the opposite.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Just wanted to update and let you know that i went to the range tonight and i was hitting balls very well. No more topping and i would say i was 90% comfortable with everything.
However i'm still getting divots that start online and then go left so i think i'm still swinging too far left and/or not letting the arms drop enough.
work in progress
However i'm still getting divots that start online and then go left so i think i'm still swinging too far left and/or not letting the arms drop enough.
work in progress
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Well, i'm done. Figured everything allllll out. Mostly a setup issue, added a little more tilt at setup and a little more foward press versus mid body hands and WALA i'm hitting it much better.
However i'm not swinging as fast as i was last year so i'm a little shorter. I need to hit the gym
However i'm not swinging as fast as i was last year so i'm a little shorter. I need to hit the gym
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