My trackman data - too much height, not enough spin

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GeoffDickson

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I tested the I20s with a variety of shafts (KBS Tour Stiff and regular; CFS Stiff and regular, DG300 and THC Stiff Graphite) using Trackman last night.

The following data is from a sample of five hits with a SEVEN iron (not the six-iron norm) and the CFS Regular using range balls off mats, no wind:
Clubhead Speed 86mph
Angle of Attack -2.6
Club path -0.7
VSP 58.3
HSP -2.3
Dyn Loft 28.1
Face Angle 0.9
Ball speed 112.1mph
Smash 1.31
Vert Ang 24.3
Horiz Angle 0.7
Spin 4243 (Min 2847, max 7103 but probably a 'double read' and should be excluded)...
Spin Axis 0.5
Max Height 35.5m
Distance 145m (One very bad hit dragged average down...most were low 150s)


My average max height is 35.5m...this is alot higher than the PGA (29m) and LPGA (24m). Launch angle also has similar pattern. Is this cause for concern? Anything in the above data that would help me explain/understand this? Fair to say I have a bit of flip happening.

My spin rate is rarely greater than 4000...well short of the PGA average (7000rpm) and the LPGA (6600rpm). Do I need to increase my spin rate? If so, how?

Numbers were fairly similar with the other shafts - some slight changes only...Looks to me like too much height, not enough spin with the irons. What do I need to be thinking about?
 
Frans@France

Frans@France

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GeoffDickson said:
Dyn Loft 28.1

Anything in the above data that would help me explain/understand this? Fair to say I have a bit of flip happening.
Click to expand...

Don't kow what the loft on that iron is but that 28.1 is a too high. Some of that might be because of using range balls as well as the low spin.
 
mgranato

mgranato

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One of my pet peeves for fittees is to try not to make equipment decisions ($$$$$) based on range ball data. Don't trust any numbers that aren't club related.
 
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SteveT

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Geoff.... do you think you might get different data results if you hit off grass rather than matts...??

I ask because you will generate different GRFs (Ground Reaction Forces) on different surfaces, and as "art" says, it will show up in Smash Factor, IIRC... and perhaps in other values too.

Different GRFs = different kinetic sequencing = different swing mechanics. Personally, I feeel a different swing between grass and matts... do you?
 
johnnymarlboro

johnnymarlboro

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SteveT said:
Geoff.... do you think you might get different data results if you hit off grass rather than matts...??

I ask because you will generate different GRFs (Ground Reaction Forces) on different surfaces, and as "art" says, it will show up in Smash Factor, IIRC... and perhaps in other values too.

Different GRFs = different kinetic sequencing = different swing mechanics. Personally, I feeel a different swing between grass and matts... do you?
Click to expand...

From what I understand, Trackman doesn't like divots so much. I also swing a bit differently when on mats as compared to grass because of past elbow and wrist injuries, and knowing that there's concrete under them there mats.
 
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langer

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I agree with Brian, got to get the dynamic loft down.
Have seen that alot when the height of the shots are to high, i would say for your clubhead speed it needs to be around 22,23.
hope this helps.
 
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SteveT

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Getting the "dynamic loft" down..??? Stiffer shaft maybe... from a CFS Regular to a KBS Tour Stiff.... or is shaft stiffness not a factor???
 
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GeoffDickson

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SteveT said:
Getting the "dynamic loft" down..??? Stiffer shaft maybe... from a CFS Regular to a KBS Tour Stiff.... or is shaft stiffness not a factor???
Click to expand...

Here are the numbers for the CFS stiff alongside of the KBS stiff. Previous numbers were for CFS regular:

Clubhead Speed 86.4/85.5
Angle of Attack -2.4/-2.0
Club path -1.6/-0.2
VSP 59.4/58.6
HSP -3.0/-1.4
Dyn Loft 28.8/29.9
Face Angle 0.8/1.1
Ball speed 112.5/107
Smash 1.31/1.25
Vert Ang 25.7/25.8
Horiz Angle 0.5/1.0
Spin 3455/3400
Spin Axis 0.5/-5.2
Max Height 36.9/30.2
Distance 146.2/135

KBS regular numbers all with the same pattern of high Vert angle and low spin.
 
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goley

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Brian

Leaving your number is one of the reason you are the best instructor out there. Could you imagine Haney etc ever putting their phone number out there for someone they probably have never met before to call them.... i dont think so. I have call you in the past and you have always had time for me and a quick question usually turns in to a lenghty call, it is always greatly appreciated.
On a side note when you ask him to reduce the amount of loft on the club throught impact will this also not decrease the amount of spin.
He seems to spin the ball about 1/2 of a tour player. From my understanding spin is created through spin loft( the difference between angle of attack and dynamic loft) If you decrease the dynamic loft with more forward lean will the spin not also decrease.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Okay... I've combined the data for these shafts in the i20 iron:

CFS Regular/CFS stiff/KBS Tour Stiff

Clubhead Speed.......... 86.0/86.4/85.5
Ball speed................ 112.1/112.5/107
Smash........................ 1.31/1.31/1.25

Angle of Attack........... -2.6/ -2.4/-2.0
Club path..................... -0.7/-1.6/-0.2
VSP............................ 58.3/59.4/58.6
HSP........................... -2.3/-3.0/-1.4
Dyn Loft..................... 28.1/28.8/29.9
Face Angle................... 0.9/0.8/1.1
Vert Ang..................... 24.3/25.7/25.8
Horiz Angle.................... 0.7/0.5/1.0

Spin........................... 4243/3455/3400
Spin Axis....................... 0.5/0.5/-5.2
Max Height............... 35.5m/36.9/30.2
Distance..................... 145/146.2/135

What does this tell you? I'm not a TM swing expert so my suggestions are strictly mine.

My suggestion? Don't use the i20s because they are designed with a low Center of Gravity and maybe some offset, which will balloon your shots.

Try hitting with a pure blade iron like the Mizunos, others... and then see the difference particularly in trajectory and height.

Greg Norman's original Cobra blades were highly top weighted to bring down his trajectory too.
 
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