Negative torque at impact

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Is there any sense in my applying negative torque through impact to increase the chances of keeping the clubface square to the target when trying to hit the ball straight with an iron or is it too high a premium to pay in terms of speed?

 

[Kevin Shields]

I thought the clubhead was free wheeling through impact?

 

[ej20]

Is there any sense in my applying negative torque through impact to increase the chances of keeping the clubface square to the target when trying to hit the ball straight with an iron or is it too high a premium to pay in terms of speed?

Are you talking about delofting the clubface without using forearm rotation?

 

[dlam]

I think there is a danger in applying negative torque and having the clubface too laid back at impact and losing a lot of distance.
The only instance when I think trying to keep the clubface from closing is it you have a massive hook then you can "hold off" the positive torque. The shaft and clubface still needs to rotate counterclockwise but not as much.

 

[softconsult]

Haven't tour players been playing a "Hold Off Fade" for a very long time?

 

[dlam]

I think there is a danger in applying negative torque and having the clubface too laid back at impact and losing a lot of distance.
The only instance when I think trying to keep the clubface from closing is it you have a massive hook then you can "hold off" the positive torque. The shaft and clubface still needs to rotate counterclockwise but not as much.

 

[softconsult]

In the interest of not promoting another website, let me say it this way.
Sean Foley learned from a mentor. That mentor preaches exactly what is
being discussed. Swinging left and holding off the face to prevent the ball
from going left.

 

[chipingguru]

If your alignments and release motion are right you should be doing anything but holding off. Id like to see a video demonstration of this holding off after the ball is struck.

Seems to me the toe turns over very quickly.

The force of a properly executed release moves it down and left not "swinging left".

 

[softconsult]

I guarantee I can go to the range today and hit some fades and some straight iron shots.

Do I know with precision and degrees etc. what I'm doing. No.
I know the feel. The feel is holding off the release. That feel obviously changes
the face as it comes into impact.

This is nothing new. What's the term, "Educated hands". Mine are in high school. The pro's are in Post Graduate studies.

 

[chipingguru]

Educated hands are the key. But, i think the "holding off" thought is not the best. The timing of the roll of the hands without throwing it away with the wrists uncocking on the downswing gives the feeling of a full release post impact. The rhythm of the hand movement dictating the face as impact.

 

[softconsult]

I like your description. "Hold Off", "Delayed Roll", whatever you want to call it is just a label.

When I play a shot I'm just picturing it, and then executing, or trying to execute it. If I get into
anal mode, I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble all too often! Special Needs Hands!

 

[chipingguru]

I am right there with ya.

I do recall Mr. Nicklaus stating that in his famous one iron shot at 17 at pebble Beach that he felt the club a bit closed at the top and had to compensate some on the downswing. Hit the flag with it. Not bad awareness!

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Maybe I didn't express myself as well as I had hoped, I apologise. What I wanted to say is that I should I try to "angle hinge" for as long as possible through impact and beyond in order to help keep the face open to the direction of the swing/HSP but at the same time square to the target at impact. Brian said that at the Anti-summit that Paul Wood commented that "nobody angle hinges for very long" but should we try to do it for as long as possible in order to improve the chances of hitting a straight shot with an iron or is it too much of a power leak?

 

[chipingguru]

That is an excellent question. my best guess is that if such a feeling helps in achieving a square face at impact then so be it. I suspect that the toe is going to roll over at the same rate even if your trying to hold onto the angled hinging. Id even go so far to say if you could do it then the shaft isn't being stresed enough meaning some wobble is occuring somewhere.

But, i just got onto this forum a few days ago so I am not in tune with Brian's teachings on this. Can a man actually hold an angled hinging through impact? I dunno the videos i see, even of Moe Norman who "thought" he was doing that show otherwise.

 

[dlam]

Maybe I didn't express myself as well as I had hoped, I apologise. What I wanted to say is that I should I try to "angle hinge" for as long as possible through impact and beyond in order to help keep the face open to the direction of the swing/HSP but at the same time square to the target at impact. Brian said that at the Anti-summit that Paul Wood commented that "nobody angle hinges for very long" but should we try to do it for as long as possible in order to improve the chances of hitting a straight shot with an iron or is it too much of a power leak?

My answer was for a "horizontal" hinger through impact. Now that I understand the question, some else may be able to help you.

 

[ej20]

Holding off forearm rotation and negative torque in my opinion are two separate actions.

Players with strong grips will be trying to "hold off" to prevent the clubface closing too much.Players with neutral or weak grips don't want to be holding off.They want to be releasing as hard as possible to square the clubface but will need to apply negative torque in order to regulate the rotation so as not to rotate too much.This requires strength in the wrists and is part of what I call rotational skills.

Playing with a neutral grip and delofting(negative torque) is a forgotten art these days because of the need to hit the ball high on todays courses.

Of course,this is my opinion only.