It's like passing a truck on the highway: You know you have to move left, then go faster, then move right, then slow down a little. Did you have to look at the exact number on the speedometer to do this? No. But that doesn't mean you don't want your speedometer to give you a good reading when you want one.
New Laws/D-Plane/Trackman
- Thread starter dsmith2296
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It's like passing a truck on the highway: You know you have to move left, then go faster, then move right, then slow down a little. Did you have to look at the exact number on the speedometer to do this? No. But that doesn't mean you don't want your speedometer to give you a good reading when you want one.
Richie3Jack
New
i didn't mean factoring the numbers on the golf course. i meant using the trackman in practice and teaching. if you can't imagine that it might be somewhat enlightening to know exactly what your face, path, aoa, carry, roll, good swings, bad swings, etc., etc., etc., than...i guess we just disagree.
burner,
i just reread your original post, and i realize that you were asking about how to do it "on the course," which i didn't address in my original reply.
however, i think that people generally improve though proper teaching and practice (on and off the course), and if trackman can help that teaching and practice be more precise (what i meant when i said "less guesswork"), i think that would carry over on to the course.
i just reread your original post, and i realize that you were asking about how to do it "on the course," which i didn't address in my original reply.
however, i think that people generally improve though proper teaching and practice (on and off the course), and if trackman can help that teaching and practice be more precise (what i meant when i said "less guesswork"), i think that would carry over on to the course.
Burner
New
Burner
New
Precisely.
Thanks for taking the trouble to re-read and come back Danny.
We are in accord I think; subject only to the ability of the golfer being such that he can take his trackman improvement plan to the course and execute.
Its fine knowing precisely what's wrong and precisely what you need to make by way of corrections.
I am just not convinced that 99.90% of golfdom has that degree of precision in them.
Thanks for taking the trouble to re-read and come back Danny.
We are in accord I think; subject only to the ability of the golfer being such that he can take his trackman improvement plan to the course and execute.
Its fine knowing precisely what's wrong and precisely what you need to make by way of corrections.
I am just not convinced that 99.90% of golfdom has that degree of precision in them.
vjsinger
New
I see clearly now. Thanks for continuing the thread.
Steve Greffen
New
Speaking for someone who doesn't have access to Trackman but teaches everyday, I preach the d-plane all the time. I don't need nor do my students a specific number to help them with their ball flight. I let the ball flight suggest if their club face is too open or closed to hit their desired flight. I do have a slow speed camera to see generally what their path is and if they are hitting it in the center of the face or not. I would love the Trackman to reconfirm my analysis however and to show them how the face to path relationship is all important.
Regarding the earlier question that burner had to know the Trackman numbers to take to the course, that is ridiculous. If you don't have an idea of how the d-plane works, regardless of numbers, you havnt paid attention to this site. (I know you have so I think you are just raging against the machine, ((Trackman)) which is a tool...a tool to improve your path to face relationships.
bolt,
You don't need Trackman.
Take them on the putting green for a minute....Short putt, get them to aim their putter 12" or so right of the hole (stick a tee peg in), but set up path directly at the hole and stroke along hole path, with the blade 12" open....
Ball will go almost straight at the teepeg.....
I think that should clarify any doubters...
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Burner
New
What I am saying is not what you are hearing............
That is way off the beam.
All I am saying is that if anyone has a trackman analysis done and gets precise measurements (of the swing path, angle of approach, club face orientation, ball position, what have you) that are needed to optimise their desired ball flight for any given shot there is no way on earth that they are going to take those measurements to the course and accurately replicate them. That is, of course, unless they get lucky - think lottery win lucky here. They may approximate them, if they are good enough - think touring Pro here - on occasion.
It is all well and good knowing precisely how way off you may have been, but it is way beyond the capability of 99.90% of golfdom to set up, swing, and execute optimal trackman numbers on anything but an ad hoc basis.
The other 00.10% would be the very best of the very best - the touring Pro's - and even Hogan only hit a couple of shots a round that he was wholly satisfied with.
I am not anti trackman and I am not anti trying to adhere to D Plane priciples, with which I am familiar.
Knowledge is a good thing. What you do with it is the proof of its worth.
T' aint no good knowing if you can't do.
That is way off the beam.
All I am saying is that if anyone has a trackman analysis done and gets precise measurements (of the swing path, angle of approach, club face orientation, ball position, what have you) that are needed to optimise their desired ball flight for any given shot there is no way on earth that they are going to take those measurements to the course and accurately replicate them. That is, of course, unless they get lucky - think lottery win lucky here. They may approximate them, if they are good enough - think touring Pro here - on occasion.
It is all well and good knowing precisely how way off you may have been, but it is way beyond the capability of 99.90% of golfdom to set up, swing, and execute optimal trackman numbers on anything but an ad hoc basis.
The other 00.10% would be the very best of the very best - the touring Pro's - and even Hogan only hit a couple of shots a round that he was wholly satisfied with.
I am not anti trackman and I am not anti trying to adhere to D Plane priciples, with which I am familiar.
Knowledge is a good thing. What you do with it is the proof of its worth.
T' aint no good knowing if you can't do.
dsmith2296
New
Burner man, I totally disagree. I think you really need to try it before you 'dis' the device.
I have a pretty subtle difference in a couple of my grips I throw into rotation. For instance, I have a left hand grip with the thumb counterclockwise of center-- my WAY weak grip. I also have a grip I use with the thumb more on top of the shaft (neutral) and of course I have my personal favorite with my left thumb clockwise of top (strong). Trackman reveals the amount of closure or openness with the varying grips. I may not know exactly the degrees, but I have a ballpark idea.
Additionally, as for angle of attack, I have left different kinds of divots all throughout my golf life. But generally, each range session is consistent if I keep the same club and don't change patterns. I have come to recognize my 4-5 ish angle of attack as opposed to my 1-3 ish angle of attack and my near zero clean pick off the turf. If you were standing beside me, you too could discern the difference after a while.
Finally, I have a couple different patterns I toy around with on swing plane. I have my personal attempt at slightly out-to-in , down the middle and in-to-out. I can give you a 1 to 5* open or -2 to +2*, or 1 to 5* closed on demand. Now, my standard deviation may be 4*, but I can get it in the requested ball park.
So I can, say, use my neutral grip and swing in-to-out and take a massive divot. I can look at the readings and if the visual result was favorable I can confirm favorable data on Trackman. If not, I tinker around with different variations and hopefully put a better pattern together.
And even if Trackman is not your personal cup of tea, your 99.01% arbitrary number is not fair.
Respectfully,
dsmith
I have a pretty subtle difference in a couple of my grips I throw into rotation. For instance, I have a left hand grip with the thumb counterclockwise of center-- my WAY weak grip. I also have a grip I use with the thumb more on top of the shaft (neutral) and of course I have my personal favorite with my left thumb clockwise of top (strong). Trackman reveals the amount of closure or openness with the varying grips. I may not know exactly the degrees, but I have a ballpark idea.
Additionally, as for angle of attack, I have left different kinds of divots all throughout my golf life. But generally, each range session is consistent if I keep the same club and don't change patterns. I have come to recognize my 4-5 ish angle of attack as opposed to my 1-3 ish angle of attack and my near zero clean pick off the turf. If you were standing beside me, you too could discern the difference after a while.
Finally, I have a couple different patterns I toy around with on swing plane. I have my personal attempt at slightly out-to-in , down the middle and in-to-out. I can give you a 1 to 5* open or -2 to +2*, or 1 to 5* closed on demand. Now, my standard deviation may be 4*, but I can get it in the requested ball park.
So I can, say, use my neutral grip and swing in-to-out and take a massive divot. I can look at the readings and if the visual result was favorable I can confirm favorable data on Trackman. If not, I tinker around with different variations and hopefully put a better pattern together.
And even if Trackman is not your personal cup of tea, your 99.01% arbitrary number is not fair.
Respectfully,
dsmith
birdie_man
New
I'm not a Trackman expert by any means. (never have seen one)
But I (also) can't see someone thinking about exact numbers on the course all too much.
As I understand, it's mostly used to take the guesswork out of troubleshooting and to (more precisely) build patterns that produce the intended numbers.
Using the numbers to learn to hit shots.
And golf science!, of course.
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Burner
New
More in hope than expectation.
Folks,
For the last time and hopefully to eradicate all doubt.
I have no beef with Trackman and do not doubt the accuracy or usefulness of the information it gives.
What I do doubt is the ability of 99.90% of golfdom to replicate the numbers trackman tells them they need to make to achieve their desired ball flight for every club in the bag.
No harm in taking a trackman assessment and trying to hit your target figures but "I may not know exactly the degrees, but I have a ballpark idea." and such like just does not cut it and simply renders the (expensive) assessment a waste of time and money.........................................................................................................
for 99.90% of golfdom, that is.
Folks,
For the last time and hopefully to eradicate all doubt.
I have no beef with Trackman and do not doubt the accuracy or usefulness of the information it gives.
What I do doubt is the ability of 99.90% of golfdom to replicate the numbers trackman tells them they need to make to achieve their desired ball flight for every club in the bag.
No harm in taking a trackman assessment and trying to hit your target figures but "I may not know exactly the degrees, but I have a ballpark idea." and such like just does not cut it and simply renders the (expensive) assessment a waste of time and money.........................................................................................................
for 99.90% of golfdom, that is.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Its no different then video. When you see yourself or see the numbers, its all just tools to help you make a change, know what the change looks and feels like, and you have have the Trackman numbers to confirm feels. Which is all you can take to the course with you.
I was going to ask the same question.
dsmith2296
New
We will never be 100% sure we can trust anything-- heck there are some conspiracy theorists out there that doubt Hogan did what he says he did. The most incredibile ball striker of all time who is also a very methodical & obsessive compulsive golfer telling why he strikes the ball so well and still some don't trust even him.....but I digress.....too bad Homer Kelly isn't here to bless Trackman!
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Its tits AND beer.
hmmmmmmmmmm tits AND beer.
the only reason I ask is I do not want to find out 10 years from now we were all duped. and we all know how Golf runs in its cycles and has its fads.
but tits and beer sounds good to me.
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