Not sure I buy the on plane right forearm

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Matt Taylor

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I'm not so egotistical to think that I know enough to venture far out on this limb, but lately I've been starting to doubt the on plane right forearm.

I agree with the theory; it's the practice of it I have a problem with. Specifically, I find it very hard to get the right forearm EXACTLY on plane.

If I grip the club in the palm of my right hand, getting my forearm exactly on plane is a cinch. A proper grip, of course, does not have the club in the palm of the right hand. So what I find is that I have to make what feels like unnatural movements to get the forearm exactly on plane.

Latley I've stopped worrying about it being perfect and have allowed for the space that my right hand holding onto the club creates. So my right forearm is parallel to the plane of the clubshaft, but sits a little above that plane -- the exact distance above the plane that my hand creates when I grip the club.

Am I missing something simple here?
 
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hue

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quote:[ Am I missing something simple here?
Click to expand...
Have you read Brian's grip article? In Brian's "Do it right" Video he makes a little gun with his right hand with the thumb being the trigger and the extended index finger the barrel. He then POINTS the gun upwards without moving the forearm by moving the hand only. You then place as much of the index finger as you can down the aft side of the grip. This makes it easy to get the trail forearm on plane.
 
rwh

rwh

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Matt Taylor: "A proper grip, of course, does not have the club in the palm of the right hand."

Per 10-2-0, the proper grip for a Golfing Machine has the grip under the Heel of the Left Hand and in the palm ("cup") of the right hand.
 
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mb6606

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Yoda recently stated that Kelley said the single most important concept to learn is the "right forearm take away". There is a lot of movement (fanning) in the right forearm and elbow which may feel uncomfortable at first. A great way to learn is practicing the movement with ping pong paddles or badminton racquets. Pictures or video clip would lift the fog.

A proper grip and "right forearm take away" will allow you to swing the club without a plane shift. A steady head and right hand straight to aiming point to complete the swing. When you get it right you can swing as smooth and effortless as Ernie Els and the ball will zip off the clubface. Once again Kelley was kerect!
 
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bgathens

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Okay, I read about the RFP last fall and have committed to it (rather than "Up the Vertical Wall" ala Toms)...this is what I need to know:
1) Does this movement better suit swingers or hitters?
...I am a hitter
2) I want no part of a draw...I want to hit the ball higher
with a cut..which hinge action with RFP faciltates this?
3) I have a neutral (2 knuckles) grip...is this a deal-
breaker to get that fade , with RFP?
4) finally, am I wrong to assume that RFP gives me a better
chance to keep the right (trail) shoulder on plane?

thanks you for your assistance...I'm close...but I need to know
these last pieces...I want to start my season and stay committed
to a swing...
 
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JohhnyThomas1

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Take no notice of my novice answers, i'm just bumping your question and waiting to see what Brian says to see if i'm learning something with all my time perusing TGM :)

1) Both
2) Angled would be most practical.
3) Angled hinge and TGM Strong single action grip, which might be a lil weaker than your stated grip, not totally sure.
4) RFP is better for sure.
 
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bgathens

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Thank you, sir....I'm seeing improvement with this...and I want to take the shortest path...I hope some of the other posters have already done this...
 
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mb6606

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Here is my understanding

Okay, I read about the RFP last fall and have committed to it (rather than "Up the Vertical Wall" ala Toms)...this is what I need to know:
1) Does this movement better suit swingers or hitters?
...I am a hitter
Can be used by either
2) I want no part of a draw...I want to hit the ball higher
with a cut..which hinge action with RFP faciltates this?
Angled hinging will tend to toward a high fade versus horizontal hinging
3) I have a neutral (2 knuckles) grip...is this a deal-
breaker to get that fade , with RFP?
The grips can be adjusted to suit the palyer and shot shape. Experiment and see what works best -- TGM recommends strong single action
4) finally, am I wrong to assume that RFP gives me a better
chance to keep the right (trail) shoulder on plane?
Yes - less chance to take the club to far inside a problem for numerous golfers. The rights forearm and shaft need to go up the inclined plane.
 
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bgathens

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Thanks, mb, the angled hinge component seems to be the one missing....I'll research up on that....I have the little yellow book
 
vjcapron

vjcapron

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quote:Originally posted by Matt Taylor

I'm not so egotistical to think that I know enough to venture far out on this limb, but lately I've been starting to doubt the on plane right forearm.

I agree with the theory; it's the practice of it I have a problem with. Specifically, I find it very hard to get the right forearm EXACTLY on plane.

If I grip the club in the palm of my right hand, getting my forearm exactly on plane is a cinch. A proper grip, of course, does not have the club in the palm of the right hand. So what I find is that I have to make what feels like unnatural movements to get the forearm exactly on plane.

Latley I've stopped worrying about it being perfect and have allowed for the space that my right hand holding onto the club creates. So my right forearm is parallel to the plane of the clubshaft, but sits a little above that plane -- the exact distance above the plane that my hand creates when I grip the club.

Am I missing something simple here?
Click to expand...


You are not missing anything. This whole right forearm on plane stuff is way over blown. Show me any tour player who is actually concerned with his right forearm being on plane and I'll show you a short knocker who can't make a cut.

"The right hand grip is primarily in the fingers, for two reasons. First, a finger grip promotes maximum feel or touch. Second, a finger grip allows the right hand to whip the clubhead through the ball with a powerful slinging action. Imagine the way a baseball pitcher generates speed by grasping the ball near the end of his fingers - he'd never get much speed if he held it in his palm. [Picture of Bob Gibson holding a baseball in his fingertips] Gripping the club in the fingers of the right hand allows that hand to work in much the same way during the golf swing." - Jack Nicklaus.

Jack didn't know squat, though. He was only the Player of the Century.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/068...=kmFdN+BHBzSvuXM+JZJ+dyYrZfISRvddfdbc2qeQfv0=
 
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revert

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In what sense is "This whole right forearm on plane stuff is way over blown"? It's something nearly all the great ball strikers achieve.
 
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ej20

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I agree most tour players don't have their right forearm on plane(by on plane,I mean pointing at the ball).They are all taught to let their arms hang straight down which means the forearm is pointed more towards the ground.It seems to work for them,so i certainly won't critizise it,but I get more consistent results with an on plane right forearm.

And it is entirely possible to have an on plane right forearm and still hold the club in the fingers.
 
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ej20

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Yes,most tour players do have their right forearm on plane at impact.Some don't mind you and i believe one of them might in fact be David Toms.

The point is,tour players hold the club in their fingers.Is it not possible then to have an on plane right forearm with a finger grip?

I thought we were discussing the right forearm at address.Sorry.
 
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revert

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I was just replying to the post above "This whole right forearm on plane stuff is way over blown"

Most pro's i've seen not only is the forearm on plane at impact but at the start of the release (bottom left pic i posted the link to). I think the whole thing with TGM with the address is to set the forearm on plane and keep it there throughout the swing? It does make sense to me though that's not how i do it. If you look at more of the tour swings at http://redgoat.smugmug.com/Tour Swings you'll find the majority have the forearm on plane at the start of the release.

As for the right hand grip i dont see how it can be in the palm unless your swinging one handed. The left thumb sits in the cup of the right hand and from there the rest is fingers.
 
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DDL

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I am not able to keep the club(or dowel) in line with my right forearm AND in the cup of my right hand with a level right wrist, neither cocked nor uncocked. I can have the clubhaft in line with my right forearm and in the cup of my right hand, only wiht an uncocked right wrist. However, if I have the club more in my fingers of the right hand , and have a space in the cup, as Mathew stated in the original post, and puched up on top of the fleshy base of the right thumb, then I have what I believe is a right arm flying wedge, although not TGM style , which requires the grip in the cup of the right hand.

However, the plane of the clubshaft is slightly 'higher' than the plane of the right forearm, as Mattew has noted, although they are parallel.
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by DDL

I am not able to keep the club(or dowel) in line with my right forearm AND in the cup of my right hand with a level right wrist, neither cocked nor uncocked. I can have the clubhaft in line with my right forearm and in the cup of my right hand, only wiht an uncocked right wrist. However, if I have the club more in my fingers of the right hand , and have a space in the cup, as Mathew stated in the original post, and puched up on top of the fleshy base of the right thumb, then I have what I believe is a right arm flying wedge, although not TGM style , which requires the grip in the cup of the right hand.

However, the plane of the clubshaft is slightly 'higher' than the plane of the right forearm, as Mattew has noted, although they are parallel.
Click to expand...

The issue here is what a 'level' right wrist is. Lynn helped clear this up for me, and it made a very nice difference to my motion.

Get a book, or some other firm flat object and hold it on your right forearm and hand.

'level' is when the book is flat against both the forearm AND the top of the thumb. The fingers of your right hand will point DOWNWARD more than most people would think. 'level is NOT about the fingers pointing out, it is this 'flat book' position that really is closer to what most think 'uncocked' is, as I had. When you are 'level' there is very little 'uncock' left really.

For me, this resulted in a much more 'high hands' FEEL at address, with both my left and right hands, but it really helps get the wedges set with the proper alignments.

Thanks Lynn ;)
 
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Matt Taylor

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Ed, that's exactly what I was missing. Level certainly feels like uncocked to me.

Thanks. That's a big change in feel that I'm going to play around with.
 
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DDL

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Wow Ed!!! Ok, I am getting excited here. I wish there was a photo to completely defog this. What you are descibing is actually possilbe, and doesn't require 'crippled' fingers. As I stated before, the only way to have the club in the cup of my right hand and to have the club inline with the right forearm was with an uncocked right wrist. That uncocked condition may actually be level.Oh so close. Neeed to reread your post again and again and start palming books to see if anything clicks. Thanks brotha.
 
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