NSA Troubleshooting- I'm a tad stumped.

[ColinMB]

So there I was enjoying the best couple of rounds of my life after watching, and practicing NSA many times in the last week or so.

But as easily as it seemed to come to me, the swing has left the building... at least in part. I'm wondering if anyone can help me trouble shoot this.

I don't want to over complicate this so here's what happens at it's worst:

- On driver, I seem to end the swing too soon. Even when I come in square, I notice I have lifted up (ending swing?) too quickly, causing me to hit worm burner drivers. (if I haven't ended the swing too early, it appears I will toe the driver, again at my worst)

- On Irons, at their worst, I am toeing them.

A possible clue: I notice when I take a slow practice swing with let's say a wood, I twist away, slowly, check my hands at the top, then slowly twist with my left hand down to the ball. If I stop my club at the ball I notice the toe of my wood is pointing down to the ground. I notice on bad swings, the toe has the most mud. (Yes, my irons are fitted for me. But I have to wonder if this is a poor swing mechanic clue.)

Finally, I do not know if this is a bad swing thought, but I found a way to save my round today, resulting in some very long, straight drives, but I'm not sure why this worked, or if it is even a good idea:
- On driver for a temporary fix, I would start my downswing lowering my right shoulder (trying to stay under plane) THEN I would pull my left shoulder UP then STOP it while my arms swung through. It seemed if I stop my shoulders, my arms had time to... pass them.

I know this is sketchy info at best, but I am stumped. I feel very close but I've tried a few 'tricks' that mostly revolve around getting myself to come inside. Any thoughts?

 

[puttmad]

- On driver, I seem to end the swing too soon. Even when I come in square, I notice I have lifted up (ending swing?) too quickly, causing me to hit worm burner drivers. (if I haven't ended the swing too early, it appears I will toe the driver, again at my worst)

You will find it is almost impossinle to come out of it early if you focus on not allowing your head to follow the ball until your right shoulder collects your (right) chin and pushes it around to the finish...in other words, maintaining your address tilt until after you have been through the impact zone...

 

[pecky987]

You will find it is almost impossinle to come out of it early if you focus on not allowing your head to follow the ball until your right shoulder collects your (right) chin and pushes it around to the finish...in other words, maintaining your address tilt until after you have been through the impact zone...

dont hurt annika, duval and stenson

 

[birdie_man]

I'm with you peckster.

 

[tank]

Are you sure that you are not flipping? might be worth it to check out "Confessions Of A Former Flipper"

 

[pecky987]

I'm with you peckster.

and as a side note, you can very easily come out of waist bend and still keep looking at the floor

 

[lookingtolearn]

Here's what I think

Finally, I do not know if this is a bad swing thought, but I found a way to save my round today, resulting in some very long, straight drives, but I'm not sure why this worked, or if it is even a good idea:
- On driver for a temporary fix, I would start my downswing lowering my right shoulder (trying to stay under plane) THEN I would pull my left shoulder UP then STOP it while my arms swung through. It seemed if I stop my shoulders, my arms had time to... pass them.

I don't think it's a bad thought. It's pretty much what Brian says to feel like you are doing in the "Allowing your arms to swing from your shoulder sockets" section of NSA. Basically, your just "schwinging dos orms."
This could also explain why you are toeing your iron shots. Perhaps you aren't stopping your shoulders soon enough to let your arms swing by. This gives you a left shoulder that is too far from the ball at impact. If that's the case, then it's Toe City.
I recommend rewatching that section of NSA (it's pretty short), continuing to do what you did with your driver, and also trying it with your iron shots. Worth a shot I think.

 

[puttmad]

..

dont hurt annika, duval and stenson

Oh I know about them..
I also know the time they put in to maintain their actions, which the average amateur can't possibly keep up with...
Just because a handful of the top players can do it doesn't make it right, or even achievable by the rest of us...
Even Ben said to keep your head steady......

Plus which, I was just giving ColinMB an option to try, thats all...

 

[puttmad]

...

and as a side note, you can very easily come out of waist bend and still keep looking at the floor

Not if you maintain your height.....

 

[pecky987]

Not if you maintain your height.....

thats the point. keing your head down, or waiting till it is collected by the right shoulder, is no guarantee you maintain your height. you can lift up and and dip and keep your chin on your chest

 

[ColinMB]

I'll try some of this, and thanks for the suggestions.

I've had 3 rounds in the past three days, and it's slowly been getting worse. I'll hit the range today and concentrate on something very simple like you suggest, keeping my head behind the ball. I'm also starting to think it might be a good idea to explore 'pitching elbow'.

And tank, I'm not even sure if I'm flipping or not. I'll check in after some more trouble shooting. Thanks again everyone.

 

[puttmad]

thats the point. keing your head down, or waiting till it is collected by the right shoulder, is no guarantee you maintain your height. you can lift up and and dip and keep your chin on your chest

Of course you can, but are less likely to do so if you think about maintaining a steady head (laterally and vertically).............

 

[ColinMB]

You know I think I just figured something out upon further reflection...

IF I was prone to coming over the top pre-NSA instruction, then that would mean I was used to coming in abruptly on top of the ball, swiping at it with a steep angle of attack.

Now post NSA I really am wondering if I am coming more from the inside path on the ball, but I'm used to kinda 'swiping' at the ball and if you think about it, coming from the inside would result in a possible toe hit if you're not finishing the ball strike.

You remember that part of the NSA video where Brian jokingly states how he loves getting his students in that position? (He is showing full extension and he has his right hand on the head of the student in a 'reverse K' sort of position) I believe if I get closer to that position, the problem is solved. The real issue is figuring out how to get there.

And maybe just concentrating on head position could do it. I've also shortened my back swing. Regardless, keeping your body behind the ball does seem to force your arms through. Thanks again.

 

[tank]

Think Pitch Elbow and getting your right shoulder into your right hip pocket during downswing (to increase axis tilt). Also flat left wrist (or bent right wrist if that works better) through the ball, and because you are a habitual "over-the-topper", think going through the ball at 10, 11, or even 12:O'clock.

 

[birdie_man]

Oh I know about them..
I also know the time they put in to maintain their actions, which the average amateur can't possibly keep up with...
Just because a handful of the top players can do it doesn't make it right, or even achievable by the rest of us...
Even Ben said to keep your head steady......

Plus which, I was just giving ColinMB an option to try, thats all...

Man Sorenstam alone is almost the best female golfer ever.......

And before someone says that she doesn't use her pivot enough...........Duval and Stenson use it plenty..........

........yes?

 

[puttmad]

Man Sorenstam alone is almost the best female golfer ever.......

Almost?............

 

[birdie_man]

Almost?............

So she is the best then? That would be even better...........

 

[ColinMB]

Ack.. I'm just about done with this. I intended on doing some trouble shooting at the range today. I found the 'pitched elbow' make me take wicked divots with my irons.

I tried staying back, and I will continue to say that with NSA I am still driving/hitting my 4 wood off the deck like never before. However I'm hitting before the ball with irons... still couldn't fix it today.

A couple guys stopped by the range asked me if I'd like to play 9 with them... I say nah, I shouldn't because I'm working on my train wreck of an iron game, but they keep bugging me so I go along with it.

Again, driving was the best I've ever done. Twisting away, inside approach, closing the face... fantastic drives. I am even attempting par 4/par 5 driver 'short cuts' I would never have tried before... and it's working. But iron play is brutal.

Funny though, my divots are very, very straight, I just either hit a low stinger off the bottom of the club, or I hit about 3-4 inches behind the ball.

I'm thinking of ditching NSA for irons, and just keeping it for driving and woods. The video is great but trouble shooting what you might be doing after seeing the video is a lot of game maintenance.

 

[puttmad]

Colin,
I went through this "early divot" thing some time ago...
There are loads of causes for this...here's a few
1) lack of lower body pivot (most likely),
2) Left shoulder too low at impact
3) Right shoulder too low/steep at impact (yes I know, seems contradictory with number 2, but not if your swing center has dropped).
4) ball too far forward in stance (swing bottom incorrect at impact)...
And so on....tough cookie to figure, but I'm sure trial and error will fix it...

 

[ColinMB]

I think it might in part be number 3. I get very fixated with coming inside and Brian's 'keep right shoulder' down the plane line is something I do a lot for driving.

I am thinking of pulling my ball back in my stance though. Well tomorrow is a new day. I have another 18 holes in front of me. I'll probably wack a bucket first and see if I can figure anything out.

Thanks for chiming in. I think you've covered a lot of the basic issues I could be experiencing.