Official ANTI-SUMMIT II comment and review thread (now w/ a Manzella review)

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Brian Manzella

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Another one in the books.

I am one tired puppy.

I will wait for a few reviews before I post my complete comments, but here are a couple of highlights:

• Explained the forces on the club talked about on this forum at length and in fine detail.

• Blew up a couple of crazy ideas that have been put forth by some other folks as of late.

• Went out today and gave live lessons as part of the presentation, in a steady drizzle, on the brand new TRACKMAN III!!

Much more to follow!
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Brian, as your friend and peer, you and Mike did a fantastic job coordinating this event. Your presentation today IMO was flawless. This information in day 1 was so good but needed to be tied into real world teaching and I felt today was terrific.

The expertise the day 1 panel displayed left me in awe. Being around anybody who is the best in their field is impressive but the 6 of them was over the top. In no way, shape or form can anyone accuse Brian of cherry picking these guys to validate his theories. There was plenty of debate while some key points were tied in and agreed upon by the panel.

These six gentlemen are all class. They display absolutely no arrogance, only patience and humility and were overly generous with their time and all too excited to answer questions. All had great senses of humor and the dinners and hotel lobby discussions were game changers.

I thought I would like it but honestly enjoyed it much more than I thought. It was also great to once again get out and meet some other teachers cut from the same cloth as us trying to get better. I applaud anyone who came to this and was very impressed.
 
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Helluva undertaking you've set out to accomplish. You guys are doing it the right way. I feel very fortunate to be a fly on the wall this past year and a half, and can't wait to see what's next.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
And another thing, ole' Fredrick swings at it rather nicely. He has a good grasp of his swing issues but it took some stones for him to get up there and rip a few shots for the group. Somehow if I invented Trackman I wouldn't want to get up in front of a group of potential buyers and hit a few ground balls! He was awesome as usual and I'm thankful for his day 2 contributions. And he may be one of the nicest guys I've ever met.
 
To follow up again, this is one of those two day stretches of information that will last for a long time, whether it was a presentation by one of the six, a gem from Brian or a side conversation with someone like Kevin Shields that will yield light bulbs popping in my brain for some time!

I don't know how Brian did it either, from near sleepless nights to banging balls in the cold drizzle all the while displaying the energy of a teenager! Quite infectious!

Thanks to all that made it possible. DO NOT miss the opportunity to purchase the video!

Steve Greffen
 

ZAP

New
What kind of new features does TM III have over the original? Or are the measurements just better?
 

ZAP

New
To follow up again, this is one of those two day stretches of information that will last for a long time, whether it was a presentation by one of the six, a gem from Brian or a side conversation with someone like Kevin Shields that will yield light bulbs popping in my brain for some time!

I don't know how Brian did it either, from near sleepless nights to banging balls in the cold drizzle all the while displaying the energy of a teenager! Quite infectious!

Thanks to all that made it possible. DO NOT miss the opportunity to purchase the video!

Steve Greffen

I have a theory that Brian is not actually a human. Still in the development stages though.
 
These six gentlemen are all class. They display absolutely no arrogance, only patience and humility and were overly generous with their time and all too excited to answer questions. All had great senses of humor and the dinners and hotel lobby discussions were game changers.

I would 100% agree with this and add that all of the Manzella guys were terrific and just as patient and humble and wanting everyone to get the most out of the summit that they could.
 
I don't think the symposium could have gone much better. There were a few logistical things that could have been better (mostly my fault), but the panelists, the other Manzella teachers, and all the attendees seemed eager to share and learn throughout the two days. It's one thing to have a golf swing seminar and have a golf instructor tell the audience how he fixes a slice or a shank. It's another ballgame when you have brilliant people in the room to tell you definitely WHY balls slice and shank - and then subsequently hear how to fix them.

What we did the last two days is an aquired taste for most regular teachers. What the attendees showed is that no matter their knowledge base, they were will willing to learn more. They were willing to say - hey, maybe I had that wrong in my head - I now see this issue from a more scientific point of view and I can now fix the the problem more readily.

No doubt there were instructors who took a pass on this symposium because they were fearful that they might have to make changes in their approach or they might have to go back to their students and say "I had this wrong". We understand - it's not easy. But we feel that the reward is worth the risk. Not everything we discussed for two and a half days will stand the test of time on the lesson tee, but I'm fairly confident that with the 6 panelists in the room, everyone exposed to their words will benefit for years.

Some thoughts:

I have a much better understanding of how TrackMan measures spin rate and spin axis. It's not the easiest concept to understand, but once it is explained, off center hits and the resulting ball flight are much less of a mystery. Hint - right hand rule.

A force normal to the clubhead path may be better described as a force normal to the hand path - at least it makes a little more sense to my brain.

3D versus 2D debate fascinates me - the panelists all handled this question with class and explained their positions very well. I think those who attended the symposium will have a much better understanding of why researchers make the choices they make.

Rob Neal and Sasho Mackenzie's explanation of kinematic sequence graphs and what they tell us (and what they don't tell us). Hint:Look at the x and y axis and READ what is being mesasured before you blast an entire industry.

I appreciate Aaron Zick's model and his desire for everyone to understand what is potentially at their fingertips with respect to distal end speed - a fast clubhead.

I firmly believe that Paul Wood may have more answers than anyone with respect to club loads and ball loads. Why wouldn't he - he's super smart and he has the latest and greatest tools which can answer questions with extreme clarity like:
1. Is Trackman accurate
2. What is the club doing? - "hey, george - can you pull out that 700 hertz 16 camera system and put markers all over the club and tell me what it's doing in 3D space? - thanks!"
3. Slippage

Thanks to everyone who made this get together a great one. I would like to thank our host and friend, Michael Jacobs, on a job well done. Most of all, I would like to thank Brian for keeping his passion for being the best teacher he can be and dragging a few guys with him. The critics and the debates seem silly as we keep learning more and more about how to help people shoot lower scores.

Go Tigers and Go Saints.
 
Brian thank you for putting together such a great summit. The panel that was assembled was fantastic. It was an enjoyable and rare opportunity to have all this information and resulting applications discussed without silly arguments or individual agendas. I am anxious to watch the video a number of times to be able to process all the information, there sure was a lot of it.
 
Damn! I cannot wait for the video. I am thinking revolutionary.

Interesting to see what the hobby golf scientists make of it.

To all the critics of MJ, BM and crew I must ask: Who among you or among those you consider authorities have organized, at their own expense, an exploration of golf swing science of this scope and depth and objectivity?

Money, effort, passion, intelligence talks; bullshit walks.
 
Damn! I cannot wait for the video. I am thinking revolutionary.

Interesting to see what the hobby golf scientists make of it.

To all the critics of MJ, BM and crew I must ask: Who among you or among those you consider authorities have organized, at their own expense, an exploration of golf swing science of this scope and depth and objectivity?

Money, effort, passion, intelligence talks; bullshit walks.


+100
 
Posted by Kevin Shields
...Fredrick... And he may be one of the nicest guys I've ever met.



I agree, he is a very impressive individual on many levels. And a great sense of humor- he broke out laughing after every shot he hit.

Thanks for a cutting edge symposium, Brian Mike and GTE. Every one of the panelists had information that complemented the others, which was then `translated' by the instructors. The video will be helpful as I wore out my writing hand. Best lunch ever at any workshop I have ever attended.
 
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SteveT

Guest
A force normal to the clubhead path may be better described as a force normal to the hand path - at least it makes a little more sense to my brain.

Did they tell you that the "centripetal" radius at impact doesn't necessarily align with the lead arm or even the club shaft?

Did they tell you that the "centripetal" radius can be draw normal to the hand path curve, through the air and to the shoulder rotatory center?

Did they tell you that the "centripetal" radius can be thus shortened to increase the centripetal acceleration and clubhead tangential velocity?

Did they tell you that an optimized driver swing can have the lead arm and clubshaft with a cupped wrist, or a flat wrist if you contort it?

What did they tell you? I'm just guessing now.....
 
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